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Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 12, 2017 tidewaterva 0

Regarding power surges into electrical systems, there are excellent solid state surge arrestor s which can be connected to the service entrance conductors of a building and to ground. The arrestor is made using a semi conductor which normally isolates the conductors from ground, but in the presence of a voltage spike (which could be caused by an EMP or CME) semiconductor is instantly ionized and conducts the voltage surge to ground. I sold and installed these devices to home and business owners who had previously had damage to electronics and well pumps due to voltage spikes caused by lightning strikes. I never had a customer experience any damage after installing a solid state surge arrestor on the service entrance conductors. A whole house solid state surge arrestor would be a very wise prep for those who have suffered lightning damage to electrical and electronic equipment due to lightning, or as a means of protection against EMP and CME induced voltage surges.

Statistics: Posted by tidewaterva — Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:17 pm


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Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 12, 2017 101airborne 0

[quote=”Photon GuyThey should test these theories to see how accurate they are and to get at least an idea of what can be expected in an EMP strike.

Way before 1980 vehicles had electric motors to start the main engine which might run on gasoline or diesel. 100% non electronic vehicles would be the really old ones which were crank started which was from what I know more or less phased out and replaced with electric starters by 1920.

Anyway, I was thinking, with a diesel engine even if it isn’t 100% non electric if you could jury rig it somehow to be able to function without electricity since diesel does not rely on a spark plug to set it off.[/quote]

They have actually done some “testing” But can’t replicate the effects ( or what they think the affects are) to be sure. I think its a matter of interpretation. As some supposed tests results show no or little damage, and others show catostropic damage. About the only thing they could agree on is the fewer “electronic components the less chance of damage.

True about the “Electric” starter. However their is a difference between the Electric and Electronic. In an EMP Pulse in theory it would destroy and/or disable anything electronic. But wouldn’t per se damage electrical items like your toaster nd old school coffee pot. Same with the electric starter on a car. Older vehicles made in the 70’s and before had points, condensors, carberators, and such that made them dun with a limited few if any relays. So again in theory would continue to run due to total lack of electronics not counting the stereo/radio.
Again its true a diesel engine doesn’t need a “spark” to fire pretty much all modern factory engines both Diesel and Gasoline depend on all types of electronics to function.

About the only thing that affects electrical items again in theory is a CME (solar flare) and it would destroy the electrical grid via the electrical wires. Anything attached to the grid via the house/business wiring. Anything not plugged in would be safe. Even a in line surge protector that is designed to protect your appliances and such from an electrical surge wouldn’t be safe because a CME indiced surge would take micro seconds and would be over before a surge protector or breaker could trip.

Again any and all of this in theory could happen or nothing at all could happen,

Statistics: Posted by 101airborne — Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:14 pm


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Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 11, 2017 tidewaterva 0

I would have zero concern about garden variety spark plugs surviving an EMP. They are designed to accept 20-100k voltage pulses in order to produce a spark across the air gap. They do this many millions of times in their lifetime. Ford and some other manufacturers have used a coil pack spark plug which may be toasted by an EMP. As far as small engines, the older small engines (19 80’s and older) mostly used battery/coil/point ignition, or magneto ignition. No solid state electronics in most of these and I expect them to be unaffected by an EMP event. Small engines starting in the early 90’s started using solid state switching transistors (Briggs Magnetron for example) which would destroyed by a significant EMP event.

Statistics: Posted by tidewaterva — Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:47 pm


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Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 11, 2017 Photon Guy 0
farmer_dude48 wrote:
I know this may be a stupid question , but would a riding lawnmower or go-cart run after a EMP ?? The ones I have are pretty antique..

That’s actually quite a good question. One of the basics of prepping is to be resourceful and that means using everything and anything you can. Using a lawnmower engine to rig a go-cart would be smart. That being said, how would a lawnmower engine be affected after an EMP? Lawnmower engines do use spark plugs so I would think that would certainly be an issue.

Statistics: Posted by Photon Guy — Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:32 am


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Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 11, 2017 Photon Guy 0
farmer_dude48 wrote:
I know this may be a stupid question , but would a riding lawnmower or go-cart run after a EMP ?? The ones I have are pretty antique..

That’s actually quite a good question. One of the basics of prepping is to be resourceful and that means using everything and anything you can. Using a lawnmower engine to rig a go-cart would be smart. That being said, how would a lawnmower engine be affected after an EMP? Lawnmower engines do use spark plugs so I would think that would certainly be an issue.

Statistics: Posted by Photon Guy — Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:32 am


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Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 11, 2017 apache235 0

My Piper Apache 235 had zero electronics on the engines, my GPS would be fried but everything else would have worked (sold it 10 years ago) as for driving, if you vehicle doesn’t have electronics on it you should be all set, but how many of us drive such a vehicle? My Dodge Power Wagon with an all mechanical diesel and no electronic anything except the radio should work. The alternator and/or starter could possible fry, but that truck will run without a battery so I’m not too worried.

Statistics: Posted by apache235 — Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:59 am


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Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 11, 2017 apache235 0

My Piper Apache 235 had zero electronics on the engines, my GPS would be fried but everything else would have worked (sold it 10 years ago) as for driving, if you vehicle doesn’t have electronics on it you should be all set, but how many of us drive such a vehicle? My Dodge Power Wagon with an all mechanical diesel and no electronic anything except the radio should work. The alternator and/or starter could possible fry, but that truck will run without a battery so I’m not too worried.

Statistics: Posted by apache235 — Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:59 am


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Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 11, 2017 Permafrost 0

Don’t get me wrong if a EMP event hits when I’m commuting I’ll be screwed, but I commute between my cabin and town so it is somewhat different because of the mode of transport. I think most people will to some extent, even preppers. Vehicles are just way down there on a list of things to worry about. On any given winter I am much more worried about going through the ice as I go between my cabin and my house in town (between 100-200 miles depending on route and ice conditions) or run my trap lines. In the summer I make the same commute by boat on the rivers, with no trail miles to shave distance. On a good year I can make the trip to see my wife a few times by plane if I have the funds, and they are predominately 1960’s or 1970’s era single engines depending on who I charter with. All I can do is carry spare parts and tools, along with a few hundred pounds of emergency gear. I tried to do some research on EMP effects on outboard engines or snowmachine engines but found few real facts, much like cars & trucks.

Statistics: Posted by Permafrost — Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:55 pm


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Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 11, 2017 Permafrost 0

Don’t get me wrong if a EMP event hits when I’m commuting I’ll be screwed, but I commute between my cabin and town so it is somewhat different because of the mode of transport. I think most people will to some extent, even preppers. Vehicles are just way down there on a list of things to worry about. On any given winter I am much more worried about going through the ice as I go between my cabin and my house in town (between 100-200 miles depending on route and ice conditions) or run my trap lines. In the summer I make the same commute by boat on the rivers, with no trail miles to shave distance. On a good year I can make the trip to see my wife a few times by plane if I have the funds, and they are predominately 1960’s or 1970’s era single engines depending on who I charter with. All I can do is carry spare parts and tools, along with a few hundred pounds of emergency gear. I tried to do some research on EMP effects on outboard engines or snowmachine engines but found few real facts, much like cars & trucks.

Statistics: Posted by Permafrost — Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:55 pm


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Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 11, 2017 Photon Guy 0
Permafrost wrote:
Photon Guy,
I think there are very few if any things that are EMP proof if they are in use during said event. I suppose it is all about where you are in life, and the risks you are willing to take. If Tesla made a 1 or 1 1/2 ton 4×4 truck I’d buy one in a heartbeat, but I am not all that worried about a EMP event. I don’t go far from the house when I am in town and if you divide the time I am on the road in hours by the total hours in a year, the percentage of risk is extremely low that I would be in any vehicle during a event. I actually spend way more hours in a given year in a boat or on a snowmachine than I do in a vehicle, I might even spend more time in single engine airplanes than I do in my truck. I think everyone’s situation is different in this regard, for someone who commutes every day for multiple hours or for someone who travels many miles away from their home it would not make sense from a EMP standpoint.

Well lets say an EMP strike hits when you’re out at sea? If your boat is a sailboat and or if it can be rowed than you might be OK but otherwise you might be in trouble. When you’re in your snow machine to you go far from your house? If you don’t than you could no doubt make it back to your house on foot although your snow machine might be useless. As for the single engine airplanes you use, do they have electrical systems for controlling the wings? I’ve done some flying myself in single engine airplanes and the ones I’ve used the guidance system is entirely mechanical so even without electricity you could still control where the plane flies and in the case of an EMP strike you might be able to safely glide down. With an electrical system though you would be in trouble if you can’t control the plane following an EMP strike.

As for me, I can be on the road quite a bit. I’ve had my car for close to three years and already its got over 150,000 miles on it. I sometimes drive across the country and back so an EMP strike could spell trouble for me if Im in the course of such a trip.

Statistics: Posted by Photon Guy — Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:16 pm


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Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 11, 2017 Photon Guy 0
Permafrost wrote:
Photon Guy,
I think there are very few if any things that are EMP proof if they are in use during said event. I suppose it is all about where you are in life, and the risks you are willing to take. If Tesla made a 1 or 1 1/2 ton 4×4 truck I’d buy one in a heartbeat, but I am not all that worried about a EMP event. I don’t go far from the house when I am in town and if you divide the time I am on the road in hours by the total hours in a year, the percentage of risk is extremely low that I would be in any vehicle during a event. I actually spend way more hours in a given year in a boat or on a snowmachine than I do in a vehicle, I might even spend more time in single engine airplanes than I do in my truck. I think everyone’s situation is different in this regard, for someone who commutes every day for multiple hours or for someone who travels many miles away from their home it would not make sense from a EMP standpoint.

Well lets say an EMP strike hits when you’re out at sea? If your boat is a sailboat and or if it can be rowed than you might be OK but otherwise you might be in trouble. When you’re in your snow machine to you go far from your house? If you don’t than you could no doubt make it back to your house on foot although your snow machine might be useless. As for the single engine airplanes you use, do they have electrical systems for controlling the wings? I’ve done some flying myself in single engine airplanes and the ones I’ve used the guidance system is entirely mechanical so even without electricity you could still control where the plane flies and in the case of an EMP strike you might be able to safely glide down. With an electrical system though you would be in trouble if you can’t control the plane following an EMP strike.

As for me, I can be on the road quite a bit. I’ve had my car for close to three years and already its got over 150,000 miles on it. I sometimes drive across the country and back so an EMP strike could spell trouble for me if Im in the course of such a trip.

Statistics: Posted by Photon Guy — Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:16 pm


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Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 10, 2017 Permafrost 0

Photon Guy,
I think there are very few if any things that are EMP proof if they are in use during said event. I suppose it is all about where you are in life, and the risks you are willing to take. If Tesla made a 1 or 1 1/2 ton 4×4 truck I’d buy one in a heartbeat, but I am not all that worried about a EMP event. I don’t go far from the house when I am in town and if you divide the time I am on the road in hours by the total hours in a year, the percentage of risk is extremely low that I would be in any vehicle during a event. I actually spend way more hours in a given year in a boat or on a snowmachine than I do in a vehicle, I might even spend more time in single engine airplanes than I do in my truck. I think everyone’s situation is different in this regard, for someone who commutes every day for multiple hours or for someone who travels many miles away from their home it would not make sense from a EMP standpoint.

Statistics: Posted by Permafrost — Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:47 pm


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Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 10, 2017 Permafrost 0

Photon Guy,
I think there are very few if any things that are EMP proof if they are in use during said event. I suppose it is all about where you are in life, and the risks you are willing to take. If Tesla made a 1 or 1 1/2 ton 4×4 truck I’d buy one in a heartbeat, but I am not all that worried about a EMP event. I don’t go far from the house when I am in town and if you divide the time I am on the road in hours by the total hours in a year, the percentage of risk is extremely low that I would be in any vehicle during a event. I actually spend way more hours in a given year in a boat or on a snowmachine than I do in a vehicle, I might even spend more time in single engine airplanes than I do in my truck. I think everyone’s situation is different in this regard, for someone who commutes every day for multiple hours or for someone who travels many miles away from their home it would not make sense from a EMP standpoint.

Statistics: Posted by Permafrost — Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:47 pm


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Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 10, 2017 Photon Guy 0
Permafrost wrote:
Something like a Tesla could be a very good or very bed thing, depending on where it is stored. I would think that if you had a metal garage (general steel building) that had the interior coated with rubberized paint it might provide enough protection to let a Tesla make it, depending on the strength of the EMP. I think golf carts fall into this category as well, completely electric so there is no need to have stored fuel, only a ability to recharge batteries that have a 15 year lifespan. I have pondered building a electric ATV for the cabin just because there is no fuel requirement, and skidding logs in the summer with a team of dogs sucks. I go back and forth on the EMP factor for such a build, if stored right it would be fine (with said solar to charge) but if it is in the open during a event it is a very expensive river bank stabilization device that my dogs have to drag to the riverbank and I would have to push over.

Here’s the thing, what if Im on the road during an EMP strike? Having a garage that can sufficiently protect your car from EMP strikes is great but there is a condition that must be met, the car must be in the garage at the time of the EMP strike in order for it to be protected. I really like the Tesla, they really help you save money since you don’t have to buy gas and they help cut down on pollution since they don’t burn fossil fuels and as of recently Tesla has been reducing the cost of their vehicles so they cost about half as much as they used to cost. The downside of it is its vulnerability to stuff that harms electronics such as EMP strikes.

Statistics: Posted by Photon Guy — Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:32 pm


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Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 10, 2017 Photon Guy 0
Permafrost wrote:
Something like a Tesla could be a very good or very bed thing, depending on where it is stored. I would think that if you had a metal garage (general steel building) that had the interior coated with rubberized paint it might provide enough protection to let a Tesla make it, depending on the strength of the EMP. I think golf carts fall into this category as well, completely electric so there is no need to have stored fuel, only a ability to recharge batteries that have a 15 year lifespan. I have pondered building a electric ATV for the cabin just because there is no fuel requirement, and skidding logs in the summer with a team of dogs sucks. I go back and forth on the EMP factor for such a build, if stored right it would be fine (with said solar to charge) but if it is in the open during a event it is a very expensive river bank stabilization device that my dogs have to drag to the riverbank and I would have to push over.

Here’s the thing, what if Im on the road during an EMP strike? Having a garage that can sufficiently protect your car from EMP strikes is great but there is a condition that must be met, the car must be in the garage at the time of the EMP strike in order for it to be protected. I really like the Tesla, they really help you save money since you don’t have to buy gas and they help cut down on pollution since they don’t burn fossil fuels and as of recently Tesla has been reducing the cost of their vehicles so they cost about half as much as they used to cost. The downside of it is its vulnerability to stuff that harms electronics such as EMP strikes.

Statistics: Posted by Photon Guy — Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:32 pm


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Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 10, 2017 Permafrost 0
Photon Guy wrote:
Well I wonder how a hybrid car would do during an EMP strike and if it would have any chance at all. I’ve been thinking of buying a Tesla car which is not even a hybrid its 100% electrical and uses no fossil fuels whatsoever. The thing is, in an EMP strike a Tesla car would be history.

Something like a Tesla could be a very good or very bed thing, depending on where it is stored. I would think that if you had a metal garage (general steel building) that had the interior coated with rubberized paint it might provide enough protection to let a Tesla make it, depending on the strength of the EMP. I think golf carts fall into this category as well, completely electric so there is no need to have stored fuel, only a ability to recharge batteries that have a 15 year lifespan. I have pondered building a electric ATV for the cabin just because there is no fuel requirement, and skidding logs in the summer with a team of dogs sucks. I go back and forth on the EMP factor for such a build, if stored right it would be fine (with said solar to charge) but if it is in the open during a event it is a very expensive river bank stabilization device that my dogs have to drag to the riverbank and I would have to push over.

Statistics: Posted by Permafrost — Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:46 pm


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Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 10, 2017 Permafrost 0
Photon Guy wrote:
Well I wonder how a hybrid car would do during an EMP strike and if it would have any chance at all. I’ve been thinking of buying a Tesla car which is not even a hybrid its 100% electrical and uses no fossil fuels whatsoever. The thing is, in an EMP strike a Tesla car would be history.

Something like a Tesla could be a very good or very bed thing, depending on where it is stored. I would think that if you had a metal garage (general steel building) that had the interior coated with rubberized paint it might provide enough protection to let a Tesla make it, depending on the strength of the EMP. I think golf carts fall into this category as well, completely electric so there is no need to have stored fuel, only a ability to recharge batteries that have a 15 year lifespan. I have pondered building a electric ATV for the cabin just because there is no fuel requirement, and skidding logs in the summer with a team of dogs sucks. I go back and forth on the EMP factor for such a build, if stored right it would be fine (with said solar to charge) but if it is in the open during a event it is a very expensive river bank stabilization device that my dogs have to drag to the riverbank and I would have to push over.

Statistics: Posted by Permafrost — Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:46 pm


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Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 10, 2017 Permafrost 0

I think it all depends on the particular diesel vehicle. If you have a mechanical injection pump then you are way ahead of the game. Diesels have another advantage most do not think of, you can get air powered starters for them. Because diesel engines are used in marine applications it is relatively easy to install a air powered starter on them, along with removing the A/C and installing a air compressor (and reservoir tank) in its place. Something like a 7.3L aspirated engine (F-250/350) found in the pre 96 fords can easily be converted over to a non-electric system and even upgraded for more hp & torque using something like a Banks SuperSidewinder turbo. I have helped someone do this conversion, mostly because they only drive the truck once every year or two and they wanted something that could sit for years and still start using nothing more than a hand pump to fill the air tank to start it. EMP is not a huge factor in how I prep but I have no doubt that something like this will still be drivable after a EMP strike, although I do not know if the headlights or power windows will work.

Statistics: Posted by Permafrost — Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:24 pm


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Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 10, 2017 Illini Warrior 0
Photon Guy wrote:

Illini Warrior wrote:if the US gets attacked using enhanced EMP producing nukes – you can be also assured they’d be positioned correctly – there wouldn’t be much left of civilian type electronics …. they’d be looking to overcome the protection being used by the military and civilian companies in the utilities and communications type fields …. that’s why you don’t skimp on your Faraday cages – you want some solid metal and not just some tin foil wrapping ….

I was thinking a gun safe must make a good Faraday cage. After all, its solid metal and if its a good gun safe its going to be quite thick too.

Anyway, there is the threat of a manmade EMP attack from an outside nation but there is also the possibility of an EMP disaster resulting from natural causes, such as certain activity from the sun.

there’s “ifs” involved in safes – most have gasketing around the door for humidity control and can have manufactured holes that are just plastic plugged ….

Statistics: Posted by Illini Warrior — Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:32 am


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Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 10, 2017 tidewaterva 0

Most gasoline engine vehicles changed to electronic fuel injection controlled by an ECM (engine control module -aka computer) in the mid 80’s to early 90’s. Diesel cars and trucks were a little slower to change to electronic fuel injection. I have a late 90’s diesel pickup which still was built with a mechanical injector pump, no ECM, and no emission controls. The intake preheater is only needed for starting when Temps drop below 40 or so. In my opinion, vehicles that were never equipped with ECM’S would probably survive an EMP strike just fine, however any ECM equipped vehicle would not be useable if there was a nearby EMP. Many older diesel vehicles with a manual transmission can be started and run indefinitely WITHOUT A BATTERY OR FUNCTIONING ELECTRICAL SYSTEM by manually opening the fuel shutoff solenoid, parking the vehicle at the top of a hill, and coast starting it when needed. This trick has been used by farmers who want to avoid buying expensive batteries. Gasoline powered vehicles must have a functioning electrical system at all times to power the ignition system. A vulnerable part on almost all vehicles is the electrical alternator, which uses diodes to rectify the AC current produced into DC which can be stored in the battery. Solid state devices such as diodes, transistors, and ECM’S are the Achilles heel which would be most vulnerable to an EMP attack. For preppers with newer vehicles who are concerned about EMP, a trip to the salvage yard or ebay to pick up a good used ECM, and alternator would be needed. It would also be wise to learn how to install the ECM (not difficult in my experience), and then store the spare ECM and alternator in a Faraday cage. Additionally, many newer vehicles have multiple computers (BCM or body control module, etc). You would need to store spares for each of these modules in a Faraday cage.

After the late 90’s all diesel cars and trucks went to electronic fuel injection to meet EPA emissions standards. I don’t see much advantage to those vehicles over gas engine during an EMP.

Another possible advantage of diesels is the ability to run on biofuel (biodiesel) which may be locally produced in many areas. I have run many tanks of B100 (100% biodiesel) in my pickup, and it runs great and produces a French fry smell).

Statistics: Posted by tidewaterva — Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:06 pm


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Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 10, 2017 tidewaterva 0

Most gasoline engine vehicles changed to electronic fuel injection controlled by an ECM (engine control module -aka computer) in the mid 80’s to early 90’s. Diesel cars and trucks were a little slower to change to electronic fuel injection. I have a late 90’s diesel pickup which still was built with a mechanical injector pump, no ECM, and no emission controls. The intake preheater is only needed for starting when Temps drop below 40 or so. In my opinion, vehicles that were never equipped with ECM’S would probably survive an EMP strike just fine, however any ECM equipped vehicle would not be useable if there was a nearby EMP. Many older diesel vehicles with a manual transmission can be started and run indefinitely WITHOUT A BATTERY OR FUNCTIONING ELECTRICAL SYSTEM by manually opening the fuel shutoff solenoid, parking the vehicle at the top of a hill, and coast starting it when needed. This trick has been used by farmers who want to avoid buying expensive batteries. Gasoline powered vehicles must have a functioning electrical system at all times to power the ignition system. A vulnerable part on almost all vehicles is the electrical alternator, which uses diodes to rectify the AC current produced into DC which can be stored in the battery. Solid state devices such as diodes, transistors, and ECM’S are the Achilles heel which would be most vulnerable to an EMP attack. For preppers with newer vehicles who are concerned about EMP, a trip to the salvage yard or ebay to pick up a good used ECM, and alternator would be needed. It would also be wise to learn how to install the ECM (not difficult in my experience), and then store the spare ECM and alternator in a Faraday cage. Additionally, many newer vehicles have multiple computers (BCM or body control module, etc). You would need to store spares for each of these modules in a Faraday cage.

After the late 90’s all diesel cars and trucks went to electronic fuel injection to meet EPA emissions standards. I don’t see much advantage to those vehicles over gas engine during an EMP.

Another possible advantage of diesels is the ability to run on biofuel (biodiesel) which may be locally produced in many areas. I have run many tanks of B100 (100% biodiesel) in my pickup, and it runs great and produces a French fry smell).

Statistics: Posted by tidewaterva — Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:06 pm


Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 10, 2017 Photon Guy 0
Illini Warrior wrote:
if the US gets attacked using enhanced EMP producing nukes – you can be also assured they’d be positioned correctly – there wouldn’t be much left of civilian type electronics …. they’d be looking to overcome the protection being used by the military and civilian companies in the utilities and communications type fields …. that’s why you don’t skimp on your Faraday cages – you want some solid metal and not just some tin foil wrapping ….

I was thinking a gun safe must make a good Faraday cage. After all, its solid metal and if its a good gun safe its going to be quite thick too.

Anyway, there is the threat of a manmade EMP attack from an outside nation but there is also the possibility of an EMP disaster resulting from natural causes, such as certain activity from the sun.

Statistics: Posted by Photon Guy — Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:44 pm


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Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 10, 2017 Photon Guy 0
Illini Warrior wrote:
if the US gets attacked using enhanced EMP producing nukes – you can be also assured they’d be positioned correctly – there wouldn’t be much left of civilian type electronics …. they’d be looking to overcome the protection being used by the military and civilian companies in the utilities and communications type fields …. that’s why you don’t skimp on your Faraday cages – you want some solid metal and not just some tin foil wrapping ….

I was thinking a gun safe must make a good Faraday cage. After all, its solid metal and if its a good gun safe its going to be quite thick too.

Anyway, there is the threat of a manmade EMP attack from an outside nation but there is also the possibility of an EMP disaster resulting from natural causes, such as certain activity from the sun.

Statistics: Posted by Photon Guy — Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:44 pm


Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 10, 2017 Photon Guy 0
101airborne wrote:
It’s not a matter of what type of fuel the vehicle uses, or how the fuel is “ignited” that is the issue in an EMP. But rather the electronic parts that control everything from the ignition switch to the controlling the idle. Some theories state that an EMP would completely fry all of these. Requiring replacing all electronics before the vehicle will start/ run. Some of these same theories believe that even uninstalled components on parts store shelves would also be destroyed and the only “safe ones” would be ones shielded in a faraday cage or similar. Then there atr the theories that a metal/ steel car body on rubber tires preventing it from being grounded and not at “ground zero” of the blast would not be affected or minimally so. requiring limited replacement of fuses and possible relays.

They should test these theories to see how accurate they are and to get at least an idea of what can be expected in an EMP strike.

101airborne wrote:
To be completely sure of no damage you’d have to have a 100% non electronic vehicle either something built prior to 1980 or converted (primarialy diesels) to non electronic engines.

Way before 1980 vehicles had electric motors to start the main engine which might run on gasoline or diesel. 100% non electronic vehicles would be the really old ones which were crank started which was from what I know more or less phased out and replaced with electric starters by 1920.

Anyway, I was thinking, with a diesel engine even if it isn’t 100% non electric if you could jury rig it somehow to be able to function without electricity since diesel does not rely on a spark plug to set it off.

Statistics: Posted by Photon Guy — Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:41 pm


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Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 10, 2017 Photon Guy 0
101airborne wrote:
It’s not a matter of what type of fuel the vehicle uses, or how the fuel is “ignited” that is the issue in an EMP. But rather the electronic parts that control everything from the ignition switch to the controlling the idle. Some theories state that an EMP would completely fry all of these. Requiring replacing all electronics before the vehicle will start/ run. Some of these same theories believe that even uninstalled components on parts store shelves would also be destroyed and the only “safe ones” would be ones shielded in a faraday cage or similar. Then there atr the theories that a metal/ steel car body on rubber tires preventing it from being grounded and not at “ground zero” of the blast would not be affected or minimally so. requiring limited replacement of fuses and possible relays.

They should test these theories to see how accurate they are and to get at least an idea of what can be expected in an EMP strike.

101airborne wrote:
To be completely sure of no damage you’d have to have a 100% non electronic vehicle either something built prior to 1980 or converted (primarialy diesels) to non electronic engines.

Way before 1980 vehicles had electric motors to start the main engine which might run on gasoline or diesel. 100% non electronic vehicles would be the really old ones which were crank started which was from what I know more or less phased out and replaced with electric starters by 1920.

Anyway, I was thinking, with a diesel engine even if it isn’t 100% non electric if you could jury rig it somehow to be able to function without electricity since diesel does not rely on a spark plug to set it off.

Statistics: Posted by Photon Guy — Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:41 pm


Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 10, 2017 Illini Warrior 0

if the US gets attacked using enhanced EMP producing nukes – you can be also assured they’d be positioned correctly – there wouldn’t be much left of civilian type electronics …. they’d be looking to overcome the protection being used by the military and civilian companies in the utilities and communications type fields …. that’s why you don’t skimp on your Faraday cages – you want some solid metal and not just some tin foil wrapping ….

Statistics: Posted by Illini Warrior — Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:18 pm


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Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 10, 2017 Illini Warrior 0

if the US gets attacked using enhanced EMP producing nukes – you can be also assured they’d be positioned correctly – there wouldn’t be much left of civilian type electronics …. they’d be looking to overcome the protection being used by the military and civilian companies in the utilities and communications type fields …. that’s why you don’t skimp on your Faraday cages – you want some solid metal and not just some tin foil wrapping ….

Statistics: Posted by Illini Warrior — Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:18 pm


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Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 10, 2017 101airborne 0
Photon Guy wrote:
Im wondering how Diesel powered vehicles would manage during and following an EMP strike, if such vehicles would run or have any function. I know that a diesel engine does not use an electrical spark to ignite its fuel the way a gasoline engine does so I was wondering if diesel powered vehicles would have any use during an EMP strike.

It’s not a matter of what type of fuel the vehicle uses, or how the fuel is “ignited” that is the issue in an EMP. But rather the electronic parts that control everything from the ignition switch to the controlling the idle. Some theories state that an EMP would completely fry all of these. Requiring replacing all electronics before the vehicle will start/ run. Some of these same theories believe that even uninstalled components on parts store shelves would also be destroyed and the only “safe ones” would be ones shielded in a faraday cage or similar. Then there atr the theories that a metal/ steel car body on rubber tires preventing it from being grounded and not at “ground zero” of the blast would not be affected or minimally so. requiring limited replacement of fuses and possible relays.

To be completely sure of no damage you’d have to have a 100% non electronic vehicle either something built prior to 1980 or converted (primarialy diesels) to non electronic engines.

Statistics: Posted by 101airborne — Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:18 pm


Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 10, 2017 101airborne 0
Photon Guy wrote:
Im wondering how Diesel powered vehicles would manage during and following an EMP strike, if such vehicles would run or have any function. I know that a diesel engine does not use an electrical spark to ignite its fuel the way a gasoline engine does so I was wondering if diesel powered vehicles would have any use during an EMP strike.

It’s not a matter of what type of fuel the vehicle uses, or how the fuel is “ignited” that is the issue in an EMP. But rather the electronic parts that control everything from the ignition switch to the controlling the idle. Some theories state that an EMP would completely fry all of these. Requiring replacing all electronics before the vehicle will start/ run. Some of these same theories believe that even uninstalled components on parts store shelves would also be destroyed and the only “safe ones” would be ones shielded in a faraday cage or similar. Then there atr the theories that a metal/ steel car body on rubber tires preventing it from being grounded and not at “ground zero” of the blast would not be affected or minimally so. requiring limited replacement of fuses and possible relays.

To be completely sure of no damage you’d have to have a 100% non electronic vehicle either something built prior to 1980 or converted (primarialy diesels) to non electronic engines.

Statistics: Posted by 101airborne — Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:18 pm


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Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 9, 2017 daaswampman 0

They don’t have a spark plug, but depend on a fuel injection system and glow plugs. I love diesel, but I doubt there is much advantage, unless it is a real old engine before modern electronics. Swamp

[snip]

Diesel engines, unlike gasoline engines, do not use spark plugs to induce combustion. Instead, they rely solely on compression to raise the temperature of the air to a point where the diesel combusts spontaneously when introduced to the hot high pressure air. The high pressure and spray pattern of the diesel ensures a controlled, complete burn. The piston rises, compressing the air in the cylinder; this causes the air’s temperature to rise. By the time the piston reaches the top of its travel path, the temperature in the cylinder is very high. The fuel mist is then sprayed into the cylinder; it instantly combusts, forcing the piston downwards, thus generating power. The pressure required to heat the air to that temperature, however, requires a large and strong engine block.

The temperature at the top of the compression stroke depends on many factors, particularly the compression ratio of the cylinder and the starting temperature of the inducted air. When the engine is cold, the temperature of the inducted air is low and it receives little heat from the engine cylinder walls. In addition, as the air is compressed and becomes heated, some of this heat is lost to the cold cylinder walls, further reducing the temperature at the top of the compression stroke. The glow plug solves this.

There are two different glow plug types: the in-cylinder variety and the in-manifold (“Thermostart”) variety. In the case of in-cylinder, there is a plug in every cylinder direct injected (or in the case of indirect injected, the glow plug is in the prechamber providing a hot spot to encourage ignition. In the case of the in-manifold one, there is only one for all the cylinders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glowplug

Statistics: Posted by daaswampman — Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:47 pm


Hydrocarbon fuels • Re: Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 9, 2017 daaswampman 0

They don’t have a spark plug, but depend on a fuel injection system and glow plugs. I love diesel, but I doubt there is much advantage, unless it is a real old engine before modern electronics. Swamp

[snip]

Diesel engines, unlike gasoline engines, do not use spark plugs to induce combustion. Instead, they rely solely on compression to raise the temperature of the air to a point where the diesel combusts spontaneously when introduced to the hot high pressure air. The high pressure and spray pattern of the diesel ensures a controlled, complete burn. The piston rises, compressing the air in the cylinder; this causes the air’s temperature to rise. By the time the piston reaches the top of its travel path, the temperature in the cylinder is very high. The fuel mist is then sprayed into the cylinder; it instantly combusts, forcing the piston downwards, thus generating power. The pressure required to heat the air to that temperature, however, requires a large and strong engine block.

The temperature at the top of the compression stroke depends on many factors, particularly the compression ratio of the cylinder and the starting temperature of the inducted air. When the engine is cold, the temperature of the inducted air is low and it receives little heat from the engine cylinder walls. In addition, as the air is compressed and becomes heated, some of this heat is lost to the cold cylinder walls, further reducing the temperature at the top of the compression stroke. The glow plug solves this.

There are two different glow plug types: the in-cylinder variety and the in-manifold (“Thermostart”) variety. In the case of in-cylinder, there is a plug in every cylinder direct injected (or in the case of indirect injected, the glow plug is in the prechamber providing a hot spot to encourage ignition. In the case of the in-manifold one, there is only one for all the cylinders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glowplug

Statistics: Posted by daaswampman — Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:47 pm


No Picture

Hydrocarbon fuels • Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 9, 2017 Photon Guy 0

Im wondering how Diesel powered vehicles would manage during and following an EMP strike, if such vehicles would run or have any function. I know that a diesel engine does not use an electrical spark to ignite its fuel the way a gasoline engine does so I was wondering if diesel powered vehicles would have any use during an EMP strike.

Statistics: Posted by Photon Guy — Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:30 pm


Hydrocarbon fuels • Diesel powered vehicles during an EMP strike

April 9, 2017 Photon Guy 0

Im wondering how Diesel powered vehicles would manage during and following an EMP strike, if such vehicles would run or have any function. I know that a diesel engine does not use an electrical spark to ignite its fuel the way a gasoline engine does so I was wondering if diesel powered vehicles would have any use during an EMP strike.

Statistics: Posted by Photon Guy — Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:30 pm