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Gardening • Rabbit tobacco

August 5, 2017 ajax727 0

I harvested one top from a rabbit tobacco plant , it is full of seeds so if anyone wants a few seeds let me know .
The plant will grow to around 6 feet or taller it will have long fuzzy leaves 10 to 14 inches and about four inches wide . There are several types so look them up for a better idea of what the plant looks like . The seeds are real small , a pinch of seeds would be 25 to 50 seeds hard to judge the amount . It grows here and there will be several more plants ready in a little while .
Will try and get some regular tobacco seeds also if I can find some tops too that did not get topped off the plants when the fields were topped .
The old seeds I spoke about last year did not sprout so the two quart jars I have are not good they were around 30 years old .

Statistics: Posted by ajax727 — Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:07 pm


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Gardening • Re: Pruning Apples

July 25, 2017 AndrewJohnson 0

Hi there! Thanks for sharing the informative post on tree pruning along with the pictures. This will help a lot for doing the pruning. Tree pruning is necessary in order to have the proper form and shape of any tree. The proper tree pruning along with tree training extends the life of fruit for all fruit trees by allowing light penetration and air flow to the trees. Along with tree pruning, tree removal, tree trimming is also very necessary in order to maintain the tree.

Statistics: Posted by AndrewJohnson — Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:03 am


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Gardening • Re: Pruning Apples

July 25, 2017 AndrewJohnson 0

Hi there! Thanks for sharing the informative post on tree pruning along with the pictures. This will help a lot for doing the pruning. Tree pruning is necessary in order to have the proper form and shape of any tree. The proper tree pruning along with tree training extends the life of fruit for all fruit trees by allowing light penetration and air flow to the trees. Along with tree pruning, tree removal, tree trimming is also very necessary in order to maintain the tree.

Statistics: Posted by AndrewJohnson — Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:03 am


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Gardening • Re: Pruning Apples

July 25, 2017 AndrewJohnson 0

Hi there! Thanks for sharing the informative post on tree pruning along with the pictures. This will help a lot for doing the pruning. Tree pruning is necessary in order to have the proper form and shape of any tree. The proper tree pruning along with tree training extends the life of fruit for all fruit trees by allowing light penetration and air flow to the trees. Along with tree pruning, tree removal, tree trimming is also very necessary in order to maintain the tree.

Statistics: Posted by AndrewJohnson — Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:03 am


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Gardening • Re: fertilizer scarce

July 21, 2017 IceFire 0

With horses, goats, and chickens (for the time being…eventually we plan on adding some cattle and swine) and other things to compost, we have PLENTY of fertilizer. Since I prefer organic methods, I don’t buy commercial fertilizers anyway.

Statistics: Posted by IceFire — Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:57 pm


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Gardening • Re: fertilizer scarce

July 21, 2017 IceFire 0

With horses, goats, and chickens (for the time being…eventually we plan on adding some cattle and swine) and other things to compost, we have PLENTY of fertilizer. Since I prefer organic methods, I don’t buy commercial fertilizers anyway.

Statistics: Posted by IceFire — Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:57 pm


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Gardening • Re: fertilizer scarce

July 20, 2017 sageprice 0

Sorry guys and Gals, but I have to ask the Big Question. Are you not preppers? Exactly where are you going to buy fertilizer if SHTF. Your Money is worth nothing, there is no fuel for the car to go get it and bad people are taking shots at you if you move around too much. A test of hydroponics fertilizer against, fish farming water or Miraclegro showed Fish water right up there with hydroponic fluids. The book “Solaris” has several chapters about “U” power (urine). As preppers one should have a bank of knowledge to pull from, not a credit card and a hardware store.

Statistics: Posted by sageprice — Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:27 am


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Gardening • Re: fertilizer scarce

July 20, 2017 sageprice 0

Sorry guys and Gals, but I have to ask the Big Question. Are you not preppers? Exactly where are you going to buy fertilizer if SHTF. Your Money is worth nothing, there is no fuel for the car to go get it and bad people are taking shots at you if you move around too much. A test of hydroponics fertilizer against, fish farming water or Miraclegro showed Fish water right up there with hydroponic fluids. The book “Solaris” has several chapters about “U” power (urine). As preppers one should have a bank of knowledge to pull from, not a credit card and a hardware store.

Statistics: Posted by sageprice — Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:27 am


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Gardening • Re: RR Ties for Raised Garden Beds

July 13, 2017 jean11 0

You might to consider concrete block for your raised beds. We made the switch last summer and I couldn’t be any happier. We used 6 inch block, stacked 3 high with a top cap, and we used concrete glue to put it together. Easy, fast, cheap, permanent, and it looks great. I did line the inside with black 4 mil plastic before we filled them with mulch. I did not want the plant water to escape through the block and cause other problems outside the beds. It’s so nice to be able to sit and pick or plant, or groom the vegetables.

Statistics: Posted by jean11 — Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:16 am


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Gardening • Re: RR Ties for Raised Garden Beds

July 13, 2017 jean11 0

You might to consider concrete block for your raised beds. We made the switch last summer and I couldn’t be any happier. We used 6 inch block, stacked 3 high with a top cap, and we used concrete glue to put it together. Easy, fast, cheap, permanent, and it looks great. I did line the inside with black 4 mil plastic before we filled them with mulch. I did not want the plant water to escape through the block and cause other problems outside the beds. It’s so nice to be able to sit and pick or plant, or groom the vegetables.

Statistics: Posted by jean11 — Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:16 am


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Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 29, 2017 daaswampman 0
Gunns wrote:

daaswampman wrote:I use this system in my greenhouse garden, it does work, but I feel it is too problematic and intensive for survival gardening. Deep mulch gardening is far simpler, less work, and can be used for larger scale and gorilla applications.

I would suggest finding a copy of The Ruth Stout No-Work Garden Book as a primer and then explore permaculture in general. My Armageddon Garden is now over six years old (maybe more-time flies), costs nothing to maintain and NEVER requires fertilizer or water! A good deal of up front work hauling mulch, but the rest is time and nature.

The best part is you can prepare a garden site years in advance and it just sits there unnoticed until needed. It’s how nature does it, but people still think they can improve on perfection. Swamp

I would argue in a SHTF scenario you may find yourself starving from plants diseases and insects. But thats just me. :innocent:

I would argue in a SHTF scenario that lasts more than a few months, you may find it impossible to replace supplies. Swamp

Statistics: Posted by daaswampman — Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:15 pm


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Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 29, 2017 Gunns 0
kappydell wrote:
Looks like a way to use a surfeit of sawdust, and I don’t have that issue. Anything requiring that much amendment and tinkering is too complicated for me to depend on it. I’ll stick to dirt & compost, thank you. It never ceases to amaze me though, the new techniques someone dreams up. I always wonder how much money they make off that stuff. But then again I am a life long cynic.

No tinkering needed. Simple, safe and productive.

By the way this is NOT a new way. Its been used for over 100 years in one form or another. MGM does not discount using dirt as the medium. This methods feeds millions world wide that live in desolate places where organics are not as available. Like desert and rocky mountain areas. You should look up Dr Mittleider and the work he did for the poor.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:25 am


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Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 29, 2017 Gunns 0
kappydell wrote:
Looks like a way to use a surfeit of sawdust, and I don’t have that issue. Anything requiring that much amendment and tinkering is too complicated for me to depend on it. I’ll stick to dirt & compost, thank you. It never ceases to amaze me though, the new techniques someone dreams up. I always wonder how much money they make off that stuff. But then again I am a life long cynic.

No tinkering needed. Simple, safe and productive.

By the way this is NOT a new way. Its been used for over 100 years in one form or another. MGM does not discount using dirt as the medium. This methods feeds millions world wide that live in desolate places where organics are not as available. Like desert and rocky mountain areas. You should look up Dr Mittleider and the work he did for the poor.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:25 am


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Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 29, 2017 Gunns 0
kappydell wrote:
Looks like a way to use a surfeit of sawdust, and I don’t have that issue. Anything requiring that much amendment and tinkering is too complicated for me to depend on it. I’ll stick to dirt & compost, thank you. It never ceases to amaze me though, the new techniques someone dreams up. I always wonder how much money they make off that stuff. But then again I am a life long cynic.

No tinkering needed. Simple, safe and productive.

By the way this is NOT a new way. Its been used for over 100 years in one form or another. MGM does not discount using dirt as the medium. This methods feeds millions world wide that live in desolate places where organics are not as available. Like desert and rocky mountain areas. You should look up Dr Mittleider and the work he did for the poor.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:25 am


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Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 29, 2017 Gunns 0
kappydell wrote:
Looks like a way to use a surfeit of sawdust, and I don’t have that issue. Anything requiring that much amendment and tinkering is too complicated for me to depend on it. I’ll stick to dirt & compost, thank you. It never ceases to amaze me though, the new techniques someone dreams up. I always wonder how much money they make off that stuff. But then again I am a life long cynic.

No tinkering needed. Simple, safe and productive.

By the way this is NOT a new way. Its been used for over 100 years in one form or another. MGM does not discount using dirt as the medium. This methods feeds millions world wide that live in desolate places where organics are not as available. Like desert and rocky mountain areas. You should look up Dr Mittleider and the work he did for the poor.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:25 am


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Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 27, 2017 kappydell 0

Looks like a way to use a surfeit of sawdust, and I don’t have that issue. Anything requiring that much amendment and tinkering is too complicated for me to depend on it. I’ll stick to dirt & compost, thank you. It never ceases to amaze me though, the new techniques someone dreams up. I always wonder how much money they make off that stuff. But then again I am a life long cynic.

Statistics: Posted by kappydell — Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:54 pm


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Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 26, 2017 Gunns 0
daaswampman wrote:
I use this system in my greenhouse garden, it does work, but I feel it is too problematic and intensive for survival gardening. Deep mulch gardening is far simpler, less work, and can be used for larger scale and gorilla applications.

I would suggest finding a copy of The Ruth Stout No-Work Garden Book as a primer and then explore permaculture in general. My Armageddon Garden is now over six years old (maybe more-time flies), costs nothing to maintain and NEVER requires fertilizer or water! A good deal of up front work hauling mulch, but the rest is time and nature.

The best part is you can prepare a garden site years in advance and it just sits there unnoticed until needed. It’s how nature does it, but people still think they can improve on perfection. Swamp

I would argue in a SHTF scenario you may find yourself starving from plants diseases and insects. But thats just me. :innocent:

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:03 am


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Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 24, 2017 Norman11 0

The original question concerned sawdust as a media for the garden. From experience my answer would be NO. Sawdust by itself needs nitrogen and absorbs it from the surrounding soil in order to compost. That’s why they tell you to fertilize. I live n southern Calif. and have clay soil. When first here I used to pick up truck loads of sawdust from the wood shop to add to my compost pile then sprinkle sulfate of ammonia for the nitrogen, on the compost to hurry the decomposition. So now the answer has changed because I believe that the process of composting is more beneficial to the soil and plants and the quality of our produce. It can help if composted, but alone it will absorb the nitrogen the plants to grow.

Statistics: Posted by Norman11 — Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:12 pm


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Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 24, 2017 Norman11 0

The original question concerned sawdust as a media for the garden. From experience my answer would be NO. Sawdust by itself needs nitrogen and absorbs it from the surrounding soil in order to compost. That’s why they tell you to fertilize. I live n southern Calif. and have clay soil. When first here I used to pick up truck loads of sawdust from the wood shop to add to my compost pile then sprinkle sulfate of ammonia for the nitrogen, on the compost to hurry the decomposition. So now the answer has changed because I believe that the process of composting is more beneficial to the soil and plants and the quality of our produce. It can help if composted, but alone it will absorb the nitrogen the plants to grow.

Statistics: Posted by Norman11 — Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:12 pm


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Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 24, 2017 DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE 0
daaswampman wrote:
I use this system in my greenhouse garden, it does work, but I feel it is too problematic and intensive for survival gardening. Deep mulch gardening is far simpler, less work, and can be used for larger scale and gorilla applications.

I would suggest finding a copy of The Ruth Stout No-Work Garden Book as a primer and then explore permaculture in general. My Armageddon Garden is now over six years old (maybe more-time flies), costs nothing to maintain and NEVER requires fertilizer or water! A good deal of up front work hauling mulch, but the rest is time and nature.

The best part is you can prepare a garden site years in advance and it just sits there unnoticed until needed. It’s how nature does it, but people still think they can improve on perfection. Swamp

Hmm…another new(but older) method for me…lol.

Thanks Swamp

Statistics: Posted by DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE — Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:34 am


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Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 24, 2017 DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE 0
daaswampman wrote:
I use this system in my greenhouse garden, it does work, but I feel it is too problematic and intensive for survival gardening. Deep mulch gardening is far simpler, less work, and can be used for larger scale and gorilla applications.

I would suggest finding a copy of The Ruth Stout No-Work Garden Book as a primer and then explore permaculture in general. My Armageddon Garden is now over six years old (maybe more-time flies), costs nothing to maintain and NEVER requires fertilizer or water! A good deal of up front work hauling mulch, but the rest is time and nature.

The best part is you can prepare a garden site years in advance and it just sits there unnoticed until needed. It’s how nature does it, but people still think they can improve on perfection. Swamp

Hmm…another new(but older) method for me…lol.

Thanks Swamp

Statistics: Posted by DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE — Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:34 am


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Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 24, 2017 NJMike 0
Gunns wrote:
Yep been doing it now for 2.5 years. NJMike is wrong. With a cost you can store 10 years worth of everything you need for growing food.

Happy to be wrong. :)

I don’t dispute that this method could work for others depending on their space, climate, and logistics. Don’t think at this point it would work for me.

Appreciate you very much supplying the first hand experience. Still interested in the cost benefit analysis (upfront + maintenance >= ouput) if you’re able to calc that out.

Statistics: Posted by NJMike — Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:43 am


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Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 24, 2017 NJMike 0
Gunns wrote:
Yep been doing it now for 2.5 years. NJMike is wrong. With a cost you can store 10 years worth of everything you need for growing food.

Happy to be wrong. :)

I don’t dispute that this method could work for others depending on their space, climate, and logistics. Don’t think at this point it would work for me.

Appreciate you very much supplying the first hand experience. Still interested in the cost benefit analysis (upfront + maintenance >= ouput) if you’re able to calc that out.

Statistics: Posted by NJMike — Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:43 am


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Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 24, 2017 NJMike 0
Gunns wrote:
Yep been doing it now for 2.5 years. NJMike is wrong. With a cost you can store 10 years worth of everything you need for growing food.

Happy to be wrong. :)

I don’t dispute that this method could work for others depending on their space, climate, and logistics. Don’t think at this point it would work for me.

Appreciate you very much supplying the first hand experience. Still interested in the cost benefit analysis (upfront + maintenance >= ouput) if you’re able to calc that out.

Statistics: Posted by NJMike — Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:43 am


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Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 23, 2017 daaswampman 0

I use this system in my greenhouse garden, it does work, but I feel it is too problematic and intensive for survival gardening. Deep mulch gardening is far simpler, less work, and can be used for larger scale and gorilla applications.

I would suggest finding a copy of The Ruth Stout No-Work Garden Book as a primer and then explore permaculture in general. My Armageddon Garden is now over six years old (maybe more-time flies), costs nothing to maintain and NEVER requires fertilizer or water! A good deal of up front work hauling mulch, but the rest is time and nature.

The best part is you can prepare a garden site years in advance and it just sits there unnoticed until needed. It’s how nature does it, but people still think they can improve on perfection. Swamp

Statistics: Posted by daaswampman — Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:28 pm


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Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 23, 2017 daaswampman 0

I use this system in my greenhouse garden, it does work, but I feel it is too problematic and intensive for survival gardening. Deep mulch gardening is far simpler, less work, and can be used for larger scale and gorilla applications.

I would suggest finding a copy of The Ruth Stout No-Work Garden Book as a primer and then explore permaculture in general. My Armageddon Garden is now over six years old (maybe more-time flies), costs nothing to maintain and NEVER requires fertilizer or water! A good deal of up front work hauling mulch, but the rest is time and nature.

The best part is you can prepare a garden site years in advance and it just sits there unnoticed until needed. It’s how nature does it, but people still think they can improve on perfection. Swamp

Statistics: Posted by daaswampman — Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:28 pm


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Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 23, 2017 DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE 0

Good stuff Gunns…Thank you! :thumbup:

I’ll check out the FB group…..

The “Organic” gardening thing…???……… Never bought into it, never will….Pure marketing ploy.

I use the word organic to make others feel comfortable :innocent: …lol….Some folks just don’t want to think for themselves once they’ve been sold something thru mass hysteria and only get angry if you force them to question their own beliefs.

Don’t get me started on the Global Warming BS…lol. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Thanks again Gunns…

Statistics: Posted by DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE — Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:47 am


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Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 23, 2017 DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE 0

Good stuff Gunns…Thank you! :thumbup:

I’ll check out the FB group…..

The “Organic” gardening thing…???……… Never bought into it, never will….Pure marketing ploy.

I use the word organic to make others feel comfortable :innocent: …lol….Some folks just don’t want to think for themselves once they’ve been sold something thru mass hysteria and only get angry if you force them to question their own beliefs.

Don’t get me started on the Global Warming BS…lol. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Thanks again Gunns…

Statistics: Posted by DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE — Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:47 am


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Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 23, 2017 Gunns 0

This was written by Mark Taylor on the Mittleider Garden Plus site on facebook and I have his permission to post it.

Organic fertilizers or Chemical fertilizers
MARK TAYLOR·FRIDAY, MARCH 31, 2017

Organic fertilizers or Chemical fertilizers

The “Organic” verses “Chemical Fertilizer” thing really needs to be set straight in my opinion.

In the minds of most Gardeners, there is “Organic Gardening” and “Chemical fertilization”.

One sounds so nice and natural. The other, by just one word, sounds dangerous.

Let’s first correct the improper use of language when describing the fertilization of crops.

An “organic” garden is one that uses compost, manure, eggshells, fish emulsion and other things of this nature to fertilize the plants. To be specific, Organic is something that is, once was, or was derived from a living organism. Organism > organic, makes sense to me.

The “Chemical fertilizer” thing.

To start with, if it is not organic, it can only be one other thing….inorganic.

Inorganic is best described as something that is derived from material such as rock, air, water or a gas. To be specific, all elements found on earth are inorganic matter. Because all so- called “chemical fertilizers” are derived from rock or air they are specifically inorganic fertilizers.

So when it comes to nutrients for plants (or any living organism) it is either derived from organic or inorganic matter.

Now we are going to get serious and real concerning that “Chemical” thing.

These days, the word “chemical” is the most stigmatized word in science that I can think of. It has become synonymous with the words danger or poison. In gardening “chemical” is the ultimate dirty word.

While applying some inarguable science, we are going to find that chemicals are actually Mother Nature’s ultimate tool.

So what is a chemical? It is matter that has constant composition and characteristics. The most basic of chemicals are the elements found in the periodic table. In science they are known as chemical elements.
Bind two or more of these chemical elements together and you get chemical compounds such as nitric acid and vitamin C.

To begin this journey, let’s start out in the “Organic” garden. Dinner left overs, cow dung, fish guts, bat crap, tree leaves, egg shells. you name it.

If it is, or once was a living organism , or was excreted by an organism…. it is organic. Pile it all into a heap and begin composting. Decomposition is the word used but how many of us really know what that means? To a plant it means complete decomposition down to the molecular level or “I ain’t eating it”.

So you have your pile of compost and your out turning it one day and notice it seems to be steaming and is pretty smelly. This is what is going on in there. Countless organisms from bacteria to all types of crawling and wiggling creatures are munching away on everything, including one another or it’s neighbor’s excrement. This is is a living reaction chamber. The series of chemical reactions occurring in this pile are countless and that smelly steam is just a tiny part of it. These are just a few of the chemical compounds that cause the smell alone.

Hydrogen sulfide, Carbon oxysulfide, Carbon disulfide, Dimethyl sulfide, Dimethyl disulfide, Dimethyl trisulfide, Methanethiol, Ethanethiol Aminomethane, Dimethylamine, Trimethylamine, and Ammonia.

Talk about chemicals!

The notion that Organic gardening uses no chemicals is a complete fallacy. The process (decomposition) of breaking down just the nitrogen component from organic matter into a plant ready nutrient involves all of the following chemical compounds.

Ammonia, Hydrazine, Hydroxylamine, Nitrogen gas, Nitrous oxide, Nitric oxide, Nitrous acid, Nitrogen dioxide, and Nitric acid.

I could bore you to sleep with the thousands of chemical compounds found during the decomposition process, but imagine the ones that are associated with just the 13 essential plant nutrients found in soil.

So the organic garden is far from being “chemical free”. Along with systems like a rain forest, an organic garden is one of the most complex chemical reaction sites on earth.

For nutrition, every single living plant in this system requires that each decomposing piece of organic material be striped of chemical bonds and exist at a molecular level in water as these precise nutrients.

NO3- NH4+ HPO4-2 H2PO4- K+ Ca+2 Mg+2 SO4-2 Fe+2 Fe+3 Cu+2 Cu+ Zn+2 Mn+2 MnO4- HMoO4 MoO4-2 H3BO3 B4O7-2 Cl-

Now that so-called “chemical fertilizer” thing.

First it must be understood that these fertilizers are not made in the sense that we actually create any of the chemical elements they are comprised of.

The nitrogen component of these fertilizers is most commonly removed from our air through the Haber Bosch Process. All others are extracted from the ground. We use a series of chemical reactions that removes specific chemical elements from their origins and reorganize them into forms that are water soluble. Sound familiar?
Re-composition rather than decomposition.

To imagine that any of these very basic chemical elements or the resulting compounds are man made is pure fantasy. Every single chemical compound in these fertilizers is a naturally occurring compound that can be found almost everywhere on this planet.

In your garden, the only thing that separates these chemical compounds by any means whatsoever is from whence they were derived. From organic material or from inorganic material. The specific nutrient HPO4-2 (phosphorous) can be extracted from animal urine or rock …..take your pick.

Now, scroll back up to that list of precise nutrients for plants.

Every single one of them is inorganic matter.

This is a fact, some portion of your organic garden must be completely striped of its organic origins (through a series of naturally occurring chemical syntheses) to become an absolutely inorganic nutrient, or your garden will die.

In fact, everything in your garden was derived from inorganic material from the very beginning and everything in it will eventually return to its inorganic origins.

That “chemical fertilizer” thing and the nonsensical fear that is pushed with its use is a straight up pile of contrived BS.

Everything on this planet is a chemical element or compound thereof.

We ourselves are an assemblage of chemical compounds…..organic for the time being!

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:48 am


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Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 23, 2017 Gunns 0

This was written by Mark Taylor on the Mittleider Garden Plus site on facebook and I have his permission to post it.

Organic fertilizers or Chemical fertilizers
MARK TAYLOR·FRIDAY, MARCH 31, 2017

Organic fertilizers or Chemical fertilizers

The “Organic” verses “Chemical Fertilizer” thing really needs to be set straight in my opinion.

In the minds of most Gardeners, there is “Organic Gardening” and “Chemical fertilization”.

One sounds so nice and natural. The other, by just one word, sounds dangerous.

Let’s first correct the improper use of language when describing the fertilization of crops.

An “organic” garden is one that uses compost, manure, eggshells, fish emulsion and other things of this nature to fertilize the plants. To be specific, Organic is something that is, once was, or was derived from a living organism. Organism > organic, makes sense to me.

The “Chemical fertilizer” thing.

To start with, if it is not organic, it can only be one other thing….inorganic.

Inorganic is best described as something that is derived from material such as rock, air, water or a gas. To be specific, all elements found on earth are inorganic matter. Because all so- called “chemical fertilizers” are derived from rock or air they are specifically inorganic fertilizers.

So when it comes to nutrients for plants (or any living organism) it is either derived from organic or inorganic matter.

Now we are going to get serious and real concerning that “Chemical” thing.

These days, the word “chemical” is the most stigmatized word in science that I can think of. It has become synonymous with the words danger or poison. In gardening “chemical” is the ultimate dirty word.

While applying some inarguable science, we are going to find that chemicals are actually Mother Nature’s ultimate tool.

So what is a chemical? It is matter that has constant composition and characteristics. The most basic of chemicals are the elements found in the periodic table. In science they are known as chemical elements.
Bind two or more of these chemical elements together and you get chemical compounds such as nitric acid and vitamin C.

To begin this journey, let’s start out in the “Organic” garden. Dinner left overs, cow dung, fish guts, bat crap, tree leaves, egg shells. you name it.

If it is, or once was a living organism , or was excreted by an organism…. it is organic. Pile it all into a heap and begin composting. Decomposition is the word used but how many of us really know what that means? To a plant it means complete decomposition down to the molecular level or “I ain’t eating it”.

So you have your pile of compost and your out turning it one day and notice it seems to be steaming and is pretty smelly. This is what is going on in there. Countless organisms from bacteria to all types of crawling and wiggling creatures are munching away on everything, including one another or it’s neighbor’s excrement. This is is a living reaction chamber. The series of chemical reactions occurring in this pile are countless and that smelly steam is just a tiny part of it. These are just a few of the chemical compounds that cause the smell alone.

Hydrogen sulfide, Carbon oxysulfide, Carbon disulfide, Dimethyl sulfide, Dimethyl disulfide, Dimethyl trisulfide, Methanethiol, Ethanethiol Aminomethane, Dimethylamine, Trimethylamine, and Ammonia.

Talk about chemicals!

The notion that Organic gardening uses no chemicals is a complete fallacy. The process (decomposition) of breaking down just the nitrogen component from organic matter into a plant ready nutrient involves all of the following chemical compounds.

Ammonia, Hydrazine, Hydroxylamine, Nitrogen gas, Nitrous oxide, Nitric oxide, Nitrous acid, Nitrogen dioxide, and Nitric acid.

I could bore you to sleep with the thousands of chemical compounds found during the decomposition process, but imagine the ones that are associated with just the 13 essential plant nutrients found in soil.

So the organic garden is far from being “chemical free”. Along with systems like a rain forest, an organic garden is one of the most complex chemical reaction sites on earth.

For nutrition, every single living plant in this system requires that each decomposing piece of organic material be striped of chemical bonds and exist at a molecular level in water as these precise nutrients.

NO3- NH4+ HPO4-2 H2PO4- K+ Ca+2 Mg+2 SO4-2 Fe+2 Fe+3 Cu+2 Cu+ Zn+2 Mn+2 MnO4- HMoO4 MoO4-2 H3BO3 B4O7-2 Cl-

Now that so-called “chemical fertilizer” thing.

First it must be understood that these fertilizers are not made in the sense that we actually create any of the chemical elements they are comprised of.

The nitrogen component of these fertilizers is most commonly removed from our air through the Haber Bosch Process. All others are extracted from the ground. We use a series of chemical reactions that removes specific chemical elements from their origins and reorganize them into forms that are water soluble. Sound familiar?
Re-composition rather than decomposition.

To imagine that any of these very basic chemical elements or the resulting compounds are man made is pure fantasy. Every single chemical compound in these fertilizers is a naturally occurring compound that can be found almost everywhere on this planet.

In your garden, the only thing that separates these chemical compounds by any means whatsoever is from whence they were derived. From organic material or from inorganic material. The specific nutrient HPO4-2 (phosphorous) can be extracted from animal urine or rock …..take your pick.

Now, scroll back up to that list of precise nutrients for plants.

Every single one of them is inorganic matter.

This is a fact, some portion of your organic garden must be completely striped of its organic origins (through a series of naturally occurring chemical syntheses) to become an absolutely inorganic nutrient, or your garden will die.

In fact, everything in your garden was derived from inorganic material from the very beginning and everything in it will eventually return to its inorganic origins.

That “chemical fertilizer” thing and the nonsensical fear that is pushed with its use is a straight up pile of contrived BS.

Everything on this planet is a chemical element or compound thereof.

We ourselves are an assemblage of chemical compounds…..organic for the time being!

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:48 am


No Image

Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 23, 2017 Gunns 0
DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE wrote:

Gunns wrote:I don’t have a big garden yet. My is all experimental. Finding what works for me. But when I make my big garden, its going to be MGM all the way.

With just to 4 by 16 foot and 1 5 by 5 foot raised bed I nearly filled my freezer already.

There we go….Thats the pics I remember seeing.

Thanks for chiming in Gunns…

So I have a few questions….

Is there a way to go auto pilot? Travel, vacation, ect….
I have been gardening in raised beds very successfully for 5+ years now…Production and plant health has been great but of course theres been some losses along the way.

I have to put in VERY little effort on a weekly basis….I run drip irrigation and I’ll go weeks without touching the garden other than to admire it and plan next stages in my head for fun….Thats HUGE to be able to do that IMO.

Did you do this huge T bar thing for the growing row trellis?

and cost….What do you at an estimate have into this setup? How much did you pay for the 10 years worth of food?

Thank you very much in advance Gunns…..Your answers will help me to determine if even learning more is worth the book purchase price for me. :thumbup:

Its been a while since I costed anything. Once I determined I liked this I bought all I needed. LDSPrepper has a lot of videos on this technique. He has lots of videos on Sq Foot and Back to Eden too. I have seen a few online track costs and so far they are doing for far less than a grocery store for sure. You can buy in bulk. I just picked up 17-17-17 50 pound bag for less than $20 (actually they were on sale so I picked up a few more) and each bag will last two seasons for me, plus I use the mix to fertilize 15 fruit trees and 36 blackberry plants. So I use it a lot. You still need all the other fixings, just like hydroponics.

I bought the books and read them more than once before trying. Than I joined Mittleider Gardening Plus site on facebook. The current books are incorrect on the calcium requirement. They state to use lime or gypsum but neither has enough water soluble calcium for the plants. Join the page and see what its like.

As far as autopilot many put timers with moisture sensors on the water systems so that helps. You do have to do weekly feeds though. But even then you can over feed before leaving, not too much mind you and then play catch up when you get back.

MGM is a poor mans hydroponics. There are a few on our facebook page that use all water soluble materials like for hydroponics and one in particular can leave for a couple weeks and the system feeds and water his plants. Too much work and expense for me.

The T frames are for stringing up Tomatoes, cucumbers, etc and having a trellis for peas and beans. Like in mine the tomato plants are getting over 6 feet high so you let down some string and let the tomato vines curve/layout to get more growing. I have determined I will take the best four and actually start to clip them to the 4 overhead wires to create a canopy this year. Just for grins.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:41 am


No Image

Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 23, 2017 Gunns 0
DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE wrote:

Gunns wrote:I don’t have a big garden yet. My is all experimental. Finding what works for me. But when I make my big garden, its going to be MGM all the way.

With just to 4 by 16 foot and 1 5 by 5 foot raised bed I nearly filled my freezer already.

There we go….Thats the pics I remember seeing.

Thanks for chiming in Gunns…

So I have a few questions….

Is there a way to go auto pilot? Travel, vacation, ect….
I have been gardening in raised beds very successfully for 5+ years now…Production and plant health has been great but of course theres been some losses along the way.

I have to put in VERY little effort on a weekly basis….I run drip irrigation and I’ll go weeks without touching the garden other than to admire it and plan next stages in my head for fun….Thats HUGE to be able to do that IMO.

Did you do this huge T bar thing for the growing row trellis?

and cost….What do you at an estimate have into this setup? How much did you pay for the 10 years worth of food?

Thank you very much in advance Gunns…..Your answers will help me to determine if even learning more is worth the book purchase price for me. :thumbup:

Its been a while since I costed anything. Once I determined I liked this I bought all I needed. LDSPrepper has a lot of videos on this technique. He has lots of videos on Sq Foot and Back to Eden too. I have seen a few online track costs and so far they are doing for far less than a grocery store for sure. You can buy in bulk. I just picked up 17-17-17 50 pound bag for less than $20 (actually they were on sale so I picked up a few more) and each bag will last two seasons for me, plus I use the mix to fertilize 15 fruit trees and 36 blackberry plants. So I use it a lot. You still need all the other fixings, just like hydroponics.

I bought the books and read them more than once before trying. Than I joined Mittleider Gardening Plus site on facebook. The current books are incorrect on the calcium requirement. They state to use lime or gypsum but neither has enough water soluble calcium for the plants. Join the page and see what its like.

As far as autopilot many put timers with moisture sensors on the water systems so that helps. You do have to do weekly feeds though. But even then you can over feed before leaving, not too much mind you and then play catch up when you get back.

MGM is a poor mans hydroponics. There are a few on our facebook page that use all water soluble materials like for hydroponics and one in particular can leave for a couple weeks and the system feeds and water his plants. Too much work and expense for me.

The T frames are for stringing up Tomatoes, cucumbers, etc and having a trellis for peas and beans. Like in mine the tomato plants are getting over 6 feet high so you let down some string and let the tomato vines curve/layout to get more growing. I have determined I will take the best four and actually start to clip them to the 4 overhead wires to create a canopy this year. Just for grins.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:41 am


No Image

Gardening • Re: Tomato plant wilt and discoloration

June 22, 2017 DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE 0
DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE wrote:
Like Illini said, could be nutrients…

Its just too hard to give direction without pictures.

I had a pretty sever case of Early blight this year that was spreading to an entire row of 8 single stemmed indeterminate while still only 10″ or so a few weeks after transplant.

I had to cut almost all the effected leaves off at the base and just hope for the best. :eek: ….They’ve come back just fine. I’m actually surprised how well they’ve done since almost all leaves were gone.

It was aggressive, but hey…It worked……. So far. :nervous:

Just an update here showing without a proper ID, there is no “Its THIS!!! Quick do THIS now!!!” answers out there….

My plants mentioned above are perfect now…Have been harvesting bunch after bunch from them… :thumbsup:

Hope everything’s worked out for you….Happy Gardening.

Statistics: Posted by DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE — Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:14 pm


No Image

Gardening • Re: Tomato plant wilt and discoloration

June 22, 2017 DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE 0
DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE wrote:
Like Illini said, could be nutrients…

Its just too hard to give direction without pictures.

I had a pretty sever case of Early blight this year that was spreading to an entire row of 8 single stemmed indeterminate while still only 10″ or so a few weeks after transplant.

I had to cut almost all the effected leaves off at the base and just hope for the best. :eek: ….They’ve come back just fine. I’m actually surprised how well they’ve done since almost all leaves were gone.

It was aggressive, but hey…It worked……. So far. :nervous:

Just an update here showing without a proper ID, there is no “Its THIS!!! Quick do THIS now!!!” answers out there….

My plants mentioned above are perfect now…Have been harvesting bunch after bunch from them… :thumbsup:

Hope everything’s worked out for you….Happy Gardening.

Statistics: Posted by DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE — Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:14 pm


Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 21, 2017 DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE 0
Gunns wrote:
I don’t have a big garden yet. My is all experimental. Finding what works for me. But when I make my big garden, its going to be MGM all the way.

With just to 4 by 16 foot and 1 5 by 5 foot raised bed I nearly filled my freezer already.

There we go….Thats the pics I remember seeing.

Thanks for chiming in Gunns…

So I have a few questions….

Is there a way to go auto pilot? Travel, vacation, ect….
I have been gardening in raised beds very successfully for 5+ years now…Production and plant health has been great but of course theres been some losses along the way.

I have to put in VERY little effort on a weekly basis….I run drip irrigation and I’ll go weeks without touching the garden other than to admire it and plan next stages in my head for fun….Thats HUGE to be able to do that IMO.

Did you do this huge T bar thing for the growing row trellis?

and cost….What do you at an estimate have into this setup? How much did you pay for the 10 years worth of food?

Thank you very much in advance Gunns…..Your answers will help me to determine if even learning more is worth the book purchase price for me. :thumbup:

Statistics: Posted by DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE — Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:47 pm