Economic Disasters

PM’s are a good thing to own; But I agree with Cast Iron
You can’t eat gold or silver or etc., unless someone has a good recipe for it, that I don’t know of.

Statistics: Posted by handyman777 — Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:22 am

I’m not disagreeing with you CI, but what if you happen to get shot going into those abandon homes, stores. What if all your supplies are diminshed or die off or stolen and you have nothing for trade but PM’s. As far as change, to get a meal for me and family or get medical attention, etc., when I have nothing else to trade but PM’s, I’m not going to ask for change, I’m going to eat, get some medical supplies, ammo, etc., I’m not going to worry about change, it’s a tip for the ones that I get it from.

We have enough food, supplies, medical supplies, anti-biotics, clothing, coal, firewood, ammo, guns, seeds, chickens, cattle, etc. to last years, but I also have PM’s when it’s all gone or stolen. I may be wrong, but I’m trying to cover all bases.

If after a year and 90% of the population is dead (I’ve heard as high as 99%), then I’ll be one lonely rich guy, if I survive.

Statistics: Posted by rickdun — Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:21 am

rickdun wrote:

Cast Iron wrote:

Gunns wrote:Its not about the allure. Its about those people that have a life times of savings to protect. You can only buy so much prepper stuff. Bullets fail, rifles rust, food goes bad, water gets old and medicines age. But PM’s will always maintain there worth.

I see your point.

However, until things normalize enough after SHTF, where the survivors do not have to worry about where their next meal is coming from, I am charging five one oz gold coins for a dozen eggs.

Cast Iron, that is definately price gouging, I’ll only charge 1/10 oz of gold that comes to about 1.25/egg. With all seriousness, I never believed in PM’s because I thought I could be self sufficient, but after many discussions with some here on the APN (GUNNS was one of them), I changed my mind and now I have 1000’s of dollars in 1oz silver bars, rounds, etc., if anything my kids will end up with them and not have to pay the county, state, feds any inheritance taxes on it.

Thanks Gunns and the others that changed my mind, I really appreciate you guys.

Why?
Supply vs. demand right?
If Wall-Mart no longer exists, the JIT food system is gone, what you have is what you have.
Ask the average American where eggs, hamburger, bread comes from and they respond,
“The supermarket.”
We have had college educated friends, two with advanced degrees, did not know a cow had to be lactating to produce milk.

In taking PM in trade I am assuming more of the risk. Will I be able to find someone in the future to trade for it, and at a equal value for what I traded it for in the first place?
How do I make change?
Is it counterfeit?
If one guy in the who community has five PMs, is that enough to generate an economy? Or are we just passing around the same five coins?

If what some have posted here, 90% of the US population is going to die off in the first year, why bother with PMs?
Just go into an abandoned house and look for gold and silver jewelery, diamonds, watches, etc.

I would be more inclined to trade for things like ammunition, medical supplies, honey, candles, those kind of things.

Statistics: Posted by Cast Iron — Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:47 am

Cast Iron wrote:

Gunns wrote:Its not about the allure. Its about those people that have a life times of savings to protect. You can only buy so much prepper stuff. Bullets fail, rifles rust, food goes bad, water gets old and medicines age. But PM’s will always maintain there worth.

I see your point.

However, until things normalize enough after SHTF, where the survivors do not have to worry about where their next meal is coming from, I am charging five one oz gold coins for a dozen eggs.

Cast Iron, that is definately price gouging, I’ll only charge 1/10 oz of gold that comes to about 1.25/egg. With all seriousness, I never believed in PM’s because I thought I could be self sufficient, but after many discussions with some here on the APN (GUNNS was one of them), I changed my mind and now I have 1000’s of dollars in 1oz silver bars, rounds, etc., if anything my kids will end up with them and not have to pay the county, state, feds any inheritance taxes on it.

Thanks Gunns and the others that changed my mind, I really appreciate you guys.

Statistics: Posted by rickdun — Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:10 am

Cast Iron wrote:

Gunns wrote:Its not about the allure. Its about those people that have a life times of savings to protect. You can only buy so much prepper stuff. Bullets fail, rifles rust, food goes bad, water gets old and medicines age. But PM’s will always maintain there worth.

I see your point.

However, until things normalize enough after SHTF, where the survivors do not have to worry about where their next meal is coming from, I am charging five one oz gold coins for a dozen eggs.

….. oh wait, your serious. Good idea!

I guess it depends on your status. If your worth is great, I can see some PM’s. Although, have you ever watched any of those home buying video’s for preppers? You can sink a pretty good fortune into a prepper stronghold.

Statistics: Posted by theoutback — Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:00 am

Gunns wrote:
Its not about the allure. Its about those people that have a life times of savings to protect. You can only buy so much prepper stuff. Bullets fail, rifles rust, food goes bad, water gets old and medicines age. But PM’s will always maintain there worth.

I see your point.

However, until things normalize enough after SHTF, where the survivors do not have to worry about where their next meal is coming from, I am charging five one oz gold coins for a dozen eggs.

Statistics: Posted by Cast Iron — Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:52 am

Gunns wrote:
Its not about the allure. Its about those people that have a life times of savings to protect. You can only buy so much prepper stuff. Bullets fail, rifles rust, food goes bad, water gets old and medicines age. But PM’s will always maintain there worth.

+1

I will add than most Westerners have no experience with gold as money or think they can’t afford it, but it is commonly traded in small and large transactions in many parts of the world! I would also add, that if you have ever panned or mined for gold – 1,200 is a bargain! Swamp

Statistics: Posted by daaswampman — Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:17 pm

PMs aren’t the first thing you should get, or the second, or the third. They are insurance, and as Gunns said, you put money into PMs when you don’t need more pails of rice or ammo or whatever.

Not that you can’t always use more ammo…

Statistics: Posted by anita — Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:12 pm

Its not about the allure. Its about those people that have a life times of savings to protect. You can only buy so much prepper stuff. Bullets fail, rifles rust, food goes bad, water gets old and medicines age. But PM’s will always maintain there worth.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:54 pm

I understand the allure of PMs, but for those kind of monies, I can invest in a whole lot of other prepper items, e.g. rifles, ammunition, cold or wet weather gear, small livestock, solar panels, communications equipment, garden and seeds etc.

Statistics: Posted by Cast Iron — Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:26 pm

The Silver Bear Café always has some very interesting articles. You have to sign up to see some of the better one’s!

http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/02.17/secret.html

Statistics: Posted by eochief66 — Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:00 am

Good article. The author (based in Europe) doesn’t make one dime off of anyone in this country when we walk in a pawn shop and buy gold / silver bullion at a decent price over spot or order 100 ounces of silver rounds online through a US mint. One’s labor is finite and history shows us that precious metal has always been the preferred medium of exchange and preservation of labor. Hard times are coming for those that ignore what’s going on globally with fiat currency. I’ll continue storing my labor in silver and lead and hopefully wont need either.

Here’s another good article: http://theantimedia.org/cash-europe-mov … per-money/

“Since the public’s attention has been drawn to emotional manipulations and political stunts, the threat the war on cash represents has gone unrecognized. Instead of feeding energy into systems meant to divide and conquer, individuals must educate themselves to secure their own financial futures. By submitting to the hive mind and following the media down whichever rabbit hole they choose, the most important issues of today will go unnoticed. The value of advocating for decentralized and physical alternatives to the banking system may not be easily grasped by the activists of today, but few other things have the potential to erode freedom on such a massive scale.”

Statistics: Posted by RockinB — Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:47 am

sageprice wrote:
Just to put some ideas in your head;
1. How long will you hold Gold and silver before you can trade it in for the NEW economy.
2. What value will a barter marketer place on your PM when he knows you are hungry and he has no place to cash it in.
3. Will your PM’s gain or lose its value compared a loaf of bread or a dozen eggs. During a depression it gained during an inflation it lost.

Good questions. You could buy a gallon of gas with the same amount of silver since 1909. Same suit of cloths with a gold coin. Same with a car. The Model T was about $825 dollars and gold was about $20.

Its about protecting what you have in most cases. Diversify.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:03 am

Just to put some ideas in your head;
1. How long will you hold Gold and silver before you can trade it in for the NEW economy.
2. What value will a barter marketer place on your PM when he knows you are hungry and he has no place to cash it in.
3. Will your PM’s gain or lose its value compared a loaf of bread or a dozen eggs. During a depression it gained during an inflation it lost.

Statistics: Posted by sageprice — Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:46 pm

I post articles such as this one to make people think! As others here, I read a lot about finances, state of our country etc. I do not and hopefully others do not take one persons article as gospel. I glean from these articles what I deem relevant and dismiss the rest as propaganda.
Over the past years many of the ideas of these authors have come to fruition, many have not.
Keep an open mind, and always think out of the box!

Statistics: Posted by eochief66 — Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:03 am

I’m sorry for being the negative one here, but.. after reading the entire article, I closed the page thinking I had just read a clever sales pitch from somebody in a position to benefit greatly by pushing propaganda while tapping into the current pulse of the election to garner confidence from those who would be paying the 20% commission and 5% annual maintenance fees into his personal savings account.
There is no question that the national debt is an anchor that we, as a country, must find a way to break free of.
But, the 1800’s are gone. We can’t tie our horses off to the watering post out in front of the general store and trade gold nuggets for groceries.
$Trillions of dollars in debt? To who? Who does the nation owe that money to? Itself.
The problem with that is.. nobody is making any sacrifices to right that wrong, and balance the checkbook.
Nobody dares to audit the expenditures of the government to identify the problem.
Instead, just print more monopoly money.
That is no solution.
If we all emptied our bank accounts, sold our investments, and liquidated our assets, the banks would only have enough paper money to give us perhaps 2cents for every dollar. If even that.
But, because we can walk up to any ATM, push a couple keys, and be holding $100 in a matter of seconds, that provides the illusion of financial security.
That’s all it is. An illusion.
Gold may very well be civilizations next global currency.
But, not until recovering — AFTER the collapse of the current world economy.
This linked article is putting the author of it in a better position to survive the ongoing economic meltdown.
At the expense of anybody who believes the illusion.
Personally, instead of buying gold, I will put a couple hundred pounds of food in the storage shed.
Why?
Gold has ZERO nutritional value.

Statistics: Posted by KazKaz — Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:32 am

Lets not forget what happen when they claimed that Gold and silver were need for the war effort. So far a bag of wheat or other grains has not been declared as illegal to own.

Statistics: Posted by sageprice — Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:34 pm

Good points all around on assets! I don’t ever plan on moving around but life is uncertain. I have always chosen to invest my excess money in tools, better tools, cheap tools at flea markets, and extra tools! I do stock non-perishable foods as long ahead as they will keep.

Along the way I have also watched ebay over many years, for semi-precious gemstones and whenever I could win some for a ridiculously low amount – I did. They are small, extremely portable, easy to hide. Not something most folks stockpile either.

Everybody thinks of gold and silver, so I never could get much of those for pennies on the dollar like I have the gemstones. Since I have literally almost nothing in them, and they are soooooo pretty, it seemed like a fine idea to me.

Statistics: Posted by rj5156 — Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:27 pm

I keep in mind that the beginning of money was to transport wealth efficiently. If you don’t plan on moving around rice, beans, and other commodities will be your reserve. If you think you might be mobile gold and silver are your friend along with the skills and knowledge to live off of the land. IMO

Statistics: Posted by Halmic73 — Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:44 pm

apache235 wrote:
I think we all should have hard assets but also things that will be in demand such as food. A 50 lb bag of rice doesn’t cost much now, in a time of no food it will be worth more than its weight in gold. Same with seeds and so on.

I agree.

Statistics: Posted by Cast Iron — Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:15 am

eochief66 wrote:
This quote pretty much say’s it all!

“Which Assets Are Most Likely To Survive The “System Re-Set”?
Your skills, knowledge and social capital will emerge unscathed on the other side of the re-set wormhole.
Your financial assets held in centrally controlled institutions will not.” – Charles Hugh Smith

Read that one too. I thought it was pretty good.

Statistics: Posted by Cast Iron — Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:14 am

I think we all should have hard assets but also things that will be in demand such as food. A 50 lb bag of rice doesn’t cost much now, in a time of no food it will be worth more than its weight in gold. Same with seeds and so on.

Statistics: Posted by apache235 — Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:41 am

This quote pretty much say’s it all!

“Which Assets Are Most Likely To Survive The “System Re-Set”?
Your skills, knowledge and social capital will emerge unscathed on the other side of the re-set wormhole.
Your financial assets held in centrally controlled institutions will not.” – Charles Hugh Smith

Statistics: Posted by eochief66 — Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:27 am

I enjoyed this article and also another one you posted a link to that featured Rep.Buffet speaking about gold and silver as a means for citizens to control government very much!

I gather you are pragmatic and favor holding durable goods as assets, so much as is possible. I favor that myself because while gold and silver may store value they cannot do work or meet needs in situations where needs are basic as in food but there are not goods to buy with money. In an economic collapse the goods are what is needed and money has little value to those who are starving.

I had noticed that individual states have been quietly passing legislation to accept silver as legal tender. I have also seen states upholding right to carry legislation. I find these items fascinating in combination. Wonder if they see the upcoming storm and hope to ride it out independently? Pure speculation for my own entertainment but I have wondered what others think about it.

Given the scope of so many countries carrying national debt loads that cannot possibly be repaid as things stand, we might yet see a “world currency” as an effort to reset and stave off total collapse? Printing money creates far more problems than it can hope to solve, in the balance but it seems to be human nature to try to stave off the inevitable as long as possible. Would world-wide hyper-inflation render it impossible to try a world currency? Or even a fiat currency in individual countries?

The international efforts to do away with physical money in favor of electronic funds might be a behind the scenes effort to work toward an economic reset?

I do not begin to understand the full implications but I see no way out of our own national debt short of defaulting though I am sure our financial powers can make our situation far worse before we hit that point. I actually hope Trump can pull it out – but we buy durable goods that will help us be more comfortable come what may.

The problems of social security combined with a national lack of personal pension funds and ever rising costs of healthcare for the profit of insurance companies is another strong force in the whole picture. The lack of pensions was addressed in the article linked in your post here and it touched on the heavy losses retirement accounts took some time ago. That round of devastating losses will not inspire people to invest traditionally for retirement savings and this lack of confidence can do the fragile economic house of cards no good.

I have been watching the approaching financial train wreck for years and scrambling to do what I can to brace myself. Mostly I have a lot of questions that cannot be answered yet. At this point I fear I might well live to see them answered.

Appreciate you sharing the links. Be interested in what you think may come of it all?

Statistics: Posted by rj5156 — Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:29 pm

I will agree you can’t eat gold or sliver but having some on hand is a good idea . If things go south gold or sliver might be the only thing that might saves you .
A farm if worked will help you survive if things go south . If setup correctly it will allow you to live it may be a hard life but you will survive .

Statistics: Posted by ajax727 — Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:35 am

daaswampman wrote:
Nobody knows exactly what the future holds, but gold and silver has a proven track record for all of human history! And right now today – gold is buying people their freedom, safety, or food, in places like Syria, Venezuela, Iraq, etc., etc. I do not see PM’s as the one answer, but rather an option and I am all about having options! Swamp

That about sums it up.

Statistics: Posted by BK in KC — Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:45 pm

It all comes down to where you are in life and what your needs are. I need ways to preserve wealth and ways to pass some to my children. My current needs were long ago and I sure don’t need any more land, supplies, etc. It was either the markets, the banks, or hard assets. I choose number three and it turned out to be a good decision for me.

Nobody knows exactly what the future holds, but gold and silver has a proven track record for all of human history! And right now today – gold is buying people their freedom, safety, or food, in places like Syria, Venezuela, Iraq, etc., etc. I do not see PM’s as the one answer, but rather an option and I am all about having options! Swamp

Statistics: Posted by daaswampman — Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:36 pm

anita wrote:
Precious metals are worth having–as long as you have your other needs taken care of. It’s insurance. It wouldn’t be the first place I’d put my assets but there’s no reason not to hold some if you can afford it.

Yes, it’s insurance, if you have your other needs taken care of. Oh, about a year and a half ago I had the same argument on this sight and a few of you convienced me to purchase some precious metals and I did. I’m thankful to those that changed my mind. I do live on a farm and do have about 99% of my other needs met.

I believe I own the thank you to Reb, Swamp and Gunns if I can remember correctly but I do have oldtimers disease.

Statistics: Posted by rickdun — Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:07 pm

anita wrote:
Precious metals are worth having–as long as you have your other needs taken care of. It’s insurance. It wouldn’t be the first place I’d put my assets but there’s no reason not to hold some if you can afford it.

Yes, it’s insurance, if you have your other needs taken care of. Oh, about a year and a half ago I had the same argument on this sight and a few of you convienced me to purchase some precious metals and I did. I’m thankful to those that changed my mind. I do live on a farm and do have about 99% of my other needs met.

I believe I own the thank you to Reb, Swamp and Gunns if I can remember correctly but I do have oldtimers disease.

Statistics: Posted by rickdun — Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:07 pm

Precious metals are worth having–as long as you have your other needs taken care of. It’s insurance. It wouldn’t be the first place I’d put my assets but there’s no reason not to hold some if you can afford it.

Statistics: Posted by anita — Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:42 pm

Precious metals are worth having–as long as you have your other needs taken care of. It’s insurance. It wouldn’t be the first place I’d put my assets but there’s no reason not to hold some if you can afford it.

Statistics: Posted by anita — Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:42 pm

Illini Warrior wrote:
if you can survive long enough in a serious SHTF the precious metal values will come back – that’s why bartering early on shouldn’t be totally out of your mind set … the guy that has a Rolex – but no way to defend himself and keep the watch – will be up to bartering for a half box of shotgun shells worth less than $3 these days …

Illini, surely you can come up with a better analogy.
Rolex…really?
I’m gonna hafta go with Sage on this one.
I much rather have some land and a few head of livestock,
than a handful of gold coins.
As far as being able to defend myself and my property;
don’t fret…I got it covered.
terp

Statistics: Posted by terrapin — Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:05 pm

Illini Warrior wrote:
if you can survive long enough in a serious SHTF the precious metal values will come back – that’s why bartering early on shouldn’t be totally out of your mind set … the guy that has a Rolex – but no way to defend himself and keep the watch – will be up to bartering for a half box of shotgun shells worth less than $3 these days …

Illini, surely you can come up with a better analogy.
Rolex…really?
I’m gonna hafta go with Sage on this one.
I much rather have some land and a few head of livestock,
than a handful of gold coins.
As far as being able to defend myself and my property;
don’t fret…I got it covered.
terp

Statistics: Posted by terrapin — Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:05 pm

sageprice wrote:
I have nothing against gold or silver or any precious metal for short term financial disasters but find them wanting in long term TEOTWAWKI events. No mater how soft gold is it still is inedible. I rather have 25 acres of farm than 300 oz of gold. Gold gets radioactive during a nuclear war. During a a super volcano it doesn’t grow crops. You can’t burn it for heat. You can’t put it in a chain saw. When the power goes out during a Carrington event it won’t power your toaster. Yes, it does hold value in market swings, but so does a well stocked pantry. I’m 68 and if my great grand kids have to work for a living all the better that I have a farm.

if you can survive long enough in a serious SHTF the precious metal values will come back – that’s why bartering early on shouldn’t be totally out of your mind set … the guy that has a Rolex – but no way to defend himself and keep the watch – will be up to bartering for a half box of shotgun shells worth less than $3 these days …

Statistics: Posted by Illini Warrior — Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:33 pm

sageprice wrote:
I have nothing against gold or silver or any precious metal for short term financial disasters but find them wanting in long term TEOTWAWKI events. No mater how soft gold is it still is inedible. I rather have 25 acres of farm than 300 oz of gold. Gold gets radioactive during a nuclear war. During a a super volcano it doesn’t grow crops. You can’t burn it for heat. You can’t put it in a chain saw. When the power goes out during a Carrington event it won’t power your toaster. Yes, it does hold value in market swings, but so does a well stocked pantry. I’m 68 and if my great grand kids have to work for a living all the better that I have a farm.

if you can survive long enough in a serious SHTF the precious metal values will come back – that’s why bartering early on shouldn’t be totally out of your mind set … the guy that has a Rolex – but no way to defend himself and keep the watch – will be up to bartering for a half box of shotgun shells worth less than $3 these days …

Statistics: Posted by Illini Warrior — Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:33 pm

I have nothing against gold or silver or any precious metal for short term financial disasters but find them wanting in long term TEOTWAWKI events. No mater how soft gold is it still is inedible. I rather have 25 acres of farm than 300 oz of gold. Gold gets radioactive during a nuclear war. During a a super volcano it doesn’t grow crops. You can’t burn it for heat. You can’t put it in a chain saw. When the power goes out during a Carrington event it won’t power your toaster. Yes, it does hold value in market swings, but so does a well stocked pantry. I’m 68 and if my great grand kids have to work for a living all the better that I have a farm.

Statistics: Posted by sageprice — Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:39 pm

I have nothing against gold or silver or any precious metal for short term financial disasters but find them wanting in long term TEOTWAWKI events. No mater how soft gold is it still is inedible. I rather have 25 acres of farm than 300 oz of gold. Gold gets radioactive during a nuclear war. During a a super volcano it doesn’t grow crops. You can’t burn it for heat. You can’t put it in a chain saw. When the power goes out during a Carrington event it won’t power your toaster. Yes, it does hold value in market swings, but so does a well stocked pantry. I’m 68 and if my great grand kids have to work for a living all the better that I have a farm.

Statistics: Posted by sageprice — Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:39 pm

Short but very true!

http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/02.17/power.html

Statistics: Posted by eochief66 — Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:44 pm

daaswampman wrote:
The Federal Reserve and Government can print as many dollars as they desire to achieve their agendas. If the dollar lost value, it may not matter that you can pay your obligations in dollars! Ask the people of Venezuela, of their experience in holding their assets in their currency! That is the risk Ron Paul and others have been warning about.

Any rational person should already know, that America (and every developed nation) has more debt than they can ever repay! They are left with the choice of continuing the lie or loosing everything right now! Like death, most people would choose to delay it. Swamp

Never Forget – “The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.”.

Yup. It’s kind of like a train wreck. I can’t quite bring myself to look away and I keep hoping it will be ok although it is so obvious that it cannot possibly be ok…

Statistics: Posted by rj5156 — Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:33 am

The Federal Reserve and Government can print as many dollars as they desire to achieve their agendas. If the dollar lost value, it may not matter that you can pay your obligations in dollars! Ask the people of Venezuela, of their experience in holding their assets in their currency! That is the risk Ron Paul and others have been warning about.

Any rational person should already know, that America (and every developed nation) has more debt than they can ever repay! They are left with the choice of continuing the lie or loosing everything right now! Like death, most people would choose to delay it. Swamp

Never Forget – “The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.”.

Statistics: Posted by daaswampman — Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:14 pm