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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Phillips screws vs regular screws

May 11, 2017 Photon Guy 0
Gunns wrote:
And there ladies and gentlemen is a very good history lesson. Thanks Everyman I had no idea and this kind of stuff is cool to hear or read.

On another note, welcome back.

I use almost exclusively Serrated Head Star Drive screws.

Well it is a good lesson but anyway Gunns, its nice to have you reply to this thread, and especially considering your username that brings me up to my next point, the screws in guns are all too often single slot screws. What drove me to start this thread is this screw in my Heritage Rough Rider revolver that’s a single slot screw and all my small screwdrivers are phillips screw drivers. Now you don’t use glue with the screws in guns and stuff isn’t going to get into the slots, especially if you keep the gun well cleaned. So it makes sense that the screws in guns would always be Phillips screws.

Statistics: Posted by Photon Guy — Thu May 11, 2017 1:45 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Phillips screws vs regular screws

May 11, 2017 Photon Guy 0
Everyman wrote:
When wood was extensively used in yacht and ship building slotted wood screws were an absolute requirement. Boat hulls were typically built from clear cabinet grade mahogany screwed to oak frames. All the care in the construction was identical to fine cabinet making. The wood was treated as a precision material. When a hull was planked the planks were fastened to the frames with bronze screws that were counter bored into the planks. The counter bore was then filled with a plug that was glued in place. Often, after years of use the screws had to be replaced. The planks were fine but the screws would become wasted. So shipwrights would pull the plugs and replace the screws. One problem they always had was that the glue used to hold the plug filled the slot of the screw. It was a simple matter to take a straight bladed screwdriver and ‘chisel’ out the glue from the slot so a larger bit (turned by a brace) could be used to remove the screw. If you use a phillips head screw in this application it would be a nightmare to remove the screws because it is tedious to remove glue from a phillips head screw. The same thing is true of screws that are countersunk, puttied over and painted.

That makes sense, but most of the time you’re not going to be using screws where you’ve got glue or other stuff that can get in the slots so except for specific situations, such as the one you mentioned, I don’t see why phillips screws wouldn’t be used all the time.

Statistics: Posted by Photon Guy — Thu May 11, 2017 1:42 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Phillips screws vs regular screws

May 11, 2017 Gunns 0
Everyman wrote:
When wood was extensively used in yacht and ship building slotted wood screws were an absolute requirement. Boat hulls were typically built from clear cabinet grade mahogany screwed to oak frames. All the care in the construction was identical to fine cabinet making. The wood was treated as a precision material. When a hull was planked the planks were fastened to the frames with bronze screws that were counter bored into the planks. The counter bore was then filled with a plug that was glued in place. Often, after years of use the screws had to be replaced. The planks were fine but the screws would become wasted. So shipwrights would pull the plugs and replace the screws. One problem they always had was that the glue used to hold the plug filled the slot of the screw. It was a simple matter to take a straight bladed screwdriver and ‘chisel’ out the glue from the slot so a larger bit (turned by a brace) could be used to remove the screw. If you use a phillips head screw in this application it would be a nightmare to remove the screws because it is tedious to remove glue from a phillips head screw. The same thing is true of screws that are countersunk, puttied over and painted.

And there ladies and gentlemen is a very good history lesson. Thanks Everyman I had no idea and this kind of stuff is cool to hear or read.

On another note, welcome back.

I use almost exclusively Serrated Head Star Drive screws.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Thu May 11, 2017 9:30 am


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Phillips screws vs regular screws

May 10, 2017 Everyman 0

When wood was extensively used in yacht and ship building slotted wood screws were an absolute requirement. Boat hulls were typically built from clear cabinet grade mahogany screwed to oak frames. All the care in the construction was identical to fine cabinet making. The wood was treated as a precision material. When a hull was planked the planks were fastened to the frames with bronze screws that were counter bored into the planks. The counter bore was then filled with a plug that was glued in place. Often, after years of use the screws had to be replaced. The planks were fine but the screws would become wasted. So shipwrights would pull the plugs and replace the screws. One problem they always had was that the glue used to hold the plug filled the slot of the screw. It was a simple matter to take a straight bladed screwdriver and ‘chisel’ out the glue from the slot so a larger bit (turned by a brace) could be used to remove the screw. If you use a phillips head screw in this application it would be a nightmare to remove the screws because it is tedious to remove glue from a phillips head screw. The same thing is true of screws that are countersunk, puttied over and painted.

Statistics: Posted by Everyman — Wed May 10, 2017 1:30 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Phillips screws vs regular screws

May 10, 2017 sageprice 0

I am not an authority on this but it was explained to me in the following way:
Anything with a circular thread is a screw.
As screw becomes a bolt if it has a nut on it if not its still a screw. (machine screw)
any difference in the head are only attempts to increase or spread the applied pressure to the surface. (cap screws verses flanged)
Any differences in the drive point are attempts at transfer more torque (twisting motion) to the screw. phillips vs slotted vs torx vs square vs hexhead (allen).
Thus is my complete knowledge on the subject.

Statistics: Posted by sageprice — Wed May 10, 2017 12:23 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Phillips screws vs regular screws

May 10, 2017 sageprice 0

I am not an authority on this but it was explained to me in the following way:
Anything with a circular thread is a screw.
As screw becomes a bolt if it has a nut on it if not its still a screw. (machine screw)
any difference in the head are only attempts to increase or spread the applied pressure to the surface. (cap screws verses flanged)
Any differences in the drive point are attempts at transfer more torque (twisting motion) to the screw. phillips vs slotted vs torx vs square vs hexhead (allen).
Thus is my complete knowledge on the subject.

Statistics: Posted by sageprice — Wed May 10, 2017 12:23 pm


Construction Cornerstone • Re: Phillips screws vs regular screws

May 8, 2017 rickdun 0

Photon, they make about 50 or more different head screw styles anymore, I have a 20 pack of bits for screws and every bit is a different size, different depth, different dimension, different pattern, etc.. That’s not including security screws, metric/american sizes, kinda like wrenches, open end, box end, metric, american, half open, half closed, straight, curved, S shaped, etc..

Manufacturers just can’t leave things simple, it’s all about the almighty dollar anymore. :help:

But, I buy all standard screws, phillips and standard, it makes it simple for me.

Statistics: Posted by rickdun — Mon May 08, 2017 6:55 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Phillips screws vs regular screws

May 8, 2017 rickdun 0

Photon, they make about 50 or more different head screw styles anymore, I have a 20 pack of bits for screws and every bit is a different size, different depth, different dimension, different pattern, etc.. That’s not including security screws, metric/american sizes, kinda like wrenches, open end, box end, metric, american, half open, half closed, straight, curved, S shaped, etc..

Manufacturers just can’t leave things simple, it’s all about the almighty dollar anymore. :help:

But, I buy all standard screws, phillips and standard, it makes it simple for me.

Statistics: Posted by rickdun — Mon May 08, 2017 6:55 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Phillips screws vs regular screws

May 8, 2017 Illini Warrior 0
Photon Guy wrote:
The screw is an ancient invention. Supposedly there’s evidence that there were screws around as early as the 3rd century B.C. Anyway, from what I know sometime in the mid 20th century they came out with the Phillips screw. The Phillips screw was a new and improved design and its distinguishable with its cross head design. So I was wondering why today all screws aren’t Phillips screws? Its supposed to work better than the old fashioned single slot screw so I don’t see why they still make the old single slot screws. I particularly find this frustrating when I need to turn a screw and its an old single slot screw and all I’ve got are Phillips screw drivers. You can sometimes use a regular screw driver to turn a Phillips screw but you can’t use a Phillips screw driver to turn a regular screw. So like I said, its frustrating.

then a square drive or clutch head is really going to pizz you off …

Statistics: Posted by Illini Warrior — Mon May 08, 2017 6:41 pm


Construction Cornerstone • Re: Phillips screws vs regular screws

May 8, 2017 Illini Warrior 0
Photon Guy wrote:
The screw is an ancient invention. Supposedly there’s evidence that there were screws around as early as the 3rd century B.C. Anyway, from what I know sometime in the mid 20th century they came out with the Phillips screw. The Phillips screw was a new and improved design and its distinguishable with its cross head design. So I was wondering why today all screws aren’t Phillips screws? Its supposed to work better than the old fashioned single slot screw so I don’t see why they still make the old single slot screws. I particularly find this frustrating when I need to turn a screw and its an old single slot screw and all I’ve got are Phillips screw drivers. You can sometimes use a regular screw driver to turn a Phillips screw but you can’t use a Phillips screw driver to turn a regular screw. So like I said, its frustrating.

then a square drive or clutch head is really going to pizz you off …

Statistics: Posted by Illini Warrior — Mon May 08, 2017 6:41 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Phillips screws vs regular screws

May 8, 2017 Photon Guy 0

The screw is an ancient invention. Supposedly there’s evidence that there were screws around as early as the 3rd century B.C. Anyway, from what I know sometime in the mid 20th century they came out with the Phillips screw. The Phillips screw was a new and improved design and its distinguishable with its cross head design. So I was wondering why today all screws aren’t Phillips screws? Its supposed to work better than the old fashioned single slot screw so I don’t see why they still make the old single slot screws. I particularly find this frustrating when I need to turn a screw and its an old single slot screw and all I’ve got are Phillips screw drivers. You can sometimes use a regular screw driver to turn a Phillips screw but you can’t use a Phillips screw driver to turn a regular screw. So like I said, its frustrating.

Statistics: Posted by Photon Guy — Mon May 08, 2017 6:37 pm


Construction Cornerstone • Phillips screws vs regular screws

May 8, 2017 Photon Guy 0

The screw is an ancient invention. Supposedly there’s evidence that there were screws around as early as the 3rd century B.C. Anyway, from what I know sometime in the mid 20th century they came out with the Phillips screw. The Phillips screw was a new and improved design and its distinguishable with its cross head design. So I was wondering why today all screws aren’t Phillips screws? Its supposed to work better than the old fashioned single slot screw so I don’t see why they still make the old single slot screws. I particularly find this frustrating when I need to turn a screw and its an old single slot screw and all I’ve got are Phillips screw drivers. You can sometimes use a regular screw driver to turn a Phillips screw but you can’t use a Phillips screw driver to turn a regular screw. So like I said, its frustrating.

Statistics: Posted by Photon Guy — Mon May 08, 2017 6:37 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Hide in plain sight OR Wall around home

April 6, 2017 Permafrost 0
Cin wrote:
They followed their food during the seasons, but I’m sure they went hungry a lot, too.

Of course, with the billions of folks on this planet now, that way of life is hardly sustainable.

There is a modern equivalent to this, it is called living a subsistence lifestyle. You have a fish camp in one area with good salmon runs and probably just have a little shack & a smokehouse. You have a fall/spring hunting camp in another area with another little shack & a meat pole. You have a summer cabin with your gardens. And you have numerous line shacks for your trap lines in the winter. In reality most of these camps are somewhat permanent now because there is no need to drag your stuff all across the landscape, but it can easily be done with a tent as well. I did it out of a tent for years until I decided where I wanted my areas to be. Yes people go hungry occasionally on a bad year, but it is not that hard to live this lifestyle. If your really lucky you can get a area where 2 or 3 seasons/food sources are at the same location.

Statistics: Posted by Permafrost — Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:53 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Hide in plain sight OR Wall around home

April 6, 2017 Permafrost 0
Cin wrote:
They followed their food during the seasons, but I’m sure they went hungry a lot, too.

Of course, with the billions of folks on this planet now, that way of life is hardly sustainable.

There is a modern equivalent to this, it is called living a subsistence lifestyle. You have a fish camp in one area with good salmon runs and probably just have a little shack & a smokehouse. You have a fall/spring hunting camp in another area with another little shack & a meat pole. You have a summer cabin with your gardens. And you have numerous line shacks for your trap lines in the winter. In reality most of these camps are somewhat permanent now because there is no need to drag your stuff all across the landscape, but it can easily be done with a tent as well. I did it out of a tent for years until I decided where I wanted my areas to be. Yes people go hungry occasionally on a bad year, but it is not that hard to live this lifestyle. If your really lucky you can get a area where 2 or 3 seasons/food sources are at the same location.

Statistics: Posted by Permafrost — Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:53 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Hide in plain sight OR Wall around home

April 5, 2017 Cast Iron 0
Cin wrote:
Sometimes, I wonder of the nomadic people were nomadic just to stay out harm’s way. Especially the Native Americans could up and move without anyone knowing they’d gone or where they taken off to. something to be said for traveling light and only being about to take what you could carry. They followed their food during the seasons, but I’m sure they went hungry a lot, too.

Of course, with the billions of folks on this planet now, that way of life is hardly sustainable.

Well, is not the American way of life so myopic, many to most would die in the first few months and to a degree, after the first year?

Statistics: Posted by Cast Iron — Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:25 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Hide in plain sight OR Wall around home

April 5, 2017 Cast Iron 0
Cin wrote:
Sometimes, I wonder of the nomadic people were nomadic just to stay out harm’s way. Especially the Native Americans could up and move without anyone knowing they’d gone or where they taken off to. something to be said for traveling light and only being about to take what you could carry. They followed their food during the seasons, but I’m sure they went hungry a lot, too.

Of course, with the billions of folks on this planet now, that way of life is hardly sustainable.

Well, is not the American way of life so myopic, many to most would die in the first few months and to a degree, after the first year?

Statistics: Posted by Cast Iron — Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:25 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Hide in plain sight OR Wall around home

April 5, 2017 Cin 0

Sometimes, I wonder of the nomadic people were nomadic just to stay out harm’s way. Especially the Native Americans could up and move without anyone knowing they’d gone or where they taken off to. something to be said for traveling light and only being about to take what you could carry. They followed their food during the seasons, but I’m sure they went hungry a lot, too.

Of course, with the billions of folks on this planet now, that way of life is hardly sustainable.

Statistics: Posted by Cin — Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:47 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Hide in plain sight OR Wall around home

April 4, 2017 Blondie 0

In total agreement with Ice Fire’s comments, who owns the “woods”? And what if some 12 yr old rabbit hunting sets off your “traps”? If it’s well concealed underground, why the need for booby traps?

Then thers’s logistics. If your stash is burried more than a few hundred feet away, how are you going to haul your items back home…..or wherever you’re headed without being seen? And robbed.

Up here you’ll contend with a good foot or two in snowcover several months of the year.

When building your fortress, make sure it’s to code. You’re keeping out firefighting equipment, EMS/ambulance as well as the bad guys. As Illini said, the cops will think you’re cooking meth.

Statistics: Posted by Blondie — Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:26 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Hide in plain sight OR Wall around home

April 4, 2017 Permafrost 0

I’m honestly not a fan of either. I believe in extreme isolation for my defenses, hundreds of miles of rivers & swamps in the summer and ice & snow in the winter make a great buffer. A walled home is like a castle, it is a big target that can be laid siege to. A hidden bunker is never really hidden, you have ventilation ports and entrances that can expose your position with thermal imaging. A determined adversary will eventually get into either one.

Likewise I am not a fan of traps. To begin with they will are a constant hazard for you and yours when moving around, trip carrying firewood in the wrong spot & your done. Dogs are a big part of my life as well, and a trap injuring or killing one of the dogs not only puts me out a valuable member of my family (team) that hauls my supplies but it diminishes my perimeter security and alarm system. Traps also have the added bonus of destroying any meat that walks into my yard, every spring I get a bear within 50 feet of my cabin (its great I don’t have to pack meat) and traps would interfere with my meat resupply plan.

Statistics: Posted by Permafrost — Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:23 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Hide in plain sight OR Wall around home

April 4, 2017 ajax727 0

Cin who knows they could be survivalists , bad or good people or they just want to left alone .
If they have stuff placed around that would aid in a defensive stand against entry then they might be smart people .
I have stuff placed here and there that could be used to defend my place . Old equipment , tires , boats , junk cars , trucks and barrels just stuff setting around in the correct places .

Statistics: Posted by ajax727 — Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:51 am


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Hide in plain sight OR Wall around home

April 4, 2017 Illini Warrior 0
Cin wrote:
There’s a junky yard down the road from us. Husband and I are convinced the people are survivalists. We see the same cars and ATV go in and out with regularity, they look fairly new, and the people don’t speak much (we’ve crossed paths with them). We’ve been told there’s a nice home back there, if one is ever invited to visit.

The junk is positioned around the property, slightly overgrown, and yet, there’s a couple old trailers near the front, and the windows are always visible, despite the weeds and brush overgrowing everything else. If you stare at the property long enough (we try not to) – the trailers are forward defense. The old cars scattered about are to hide behind to get out of a field of fire. And the broken down crane with the bucket still in the air, well a person in it can hide and see for miles around.

Or it’s just an old junk yard with rotting carcasses of cars/mobile homes, nothing to see or salvage here, move along.

sounds more like they are cooking meth or have kidnapped teenagers chained up ….

Statistics: Posted by Illini Warrior — Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:49 am


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Hide in plain sight OR Wall around home

April 4, 2017 Cin 0

There’s a junky yard down the road from us. Husband and I are convinced the people are survivalists. We see the same cars and ATV go in and out with regularity, they look fairly new, and the people don’t speak much (we’ve crossed paths with them). We’ve been told there’s a nice home back there, if one is ever invited to visit.

The junk is positioned around the property, slightly overgrown, and yet, there’s a couple old trailers near the front, and the windows are always visible, despite the weeds and brush overgrowing everything else. If you stare at the property long enough (we try not to) – the trailers are forward defense. The old cars scattered about are to hide behind to get out of a field of fire. And the broken down crane with the bucket still in the air, well a person in it can hide and see for miles around.

Or it’s just an old junk yard with rotting carcasses of cars/mobile homes, nothing to see or salvage here, move along.

Statistics: Posted by Cin — Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:24 am


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Hide in plain sight OR Wall around home

April 4, 2017 Cast Iron 0

Both would require serious heavy machinery.
In the woods, that machinery would leave tracks and be visible from aerial views.
Right now, on google maps, I can see my ATV tracks. I can even see the livestock, their fencing, and tell old paddocks from new ones.

If it is possible, build the walled house, then sheath it in vinyl siding and make it look like every other house built in the past twenty or so years.

Realistically comes down to cost.
Might be cheaper and more realistic to make modifications to the surroundings to make the homestead more defensible.

Traps are a bad idea. You have to know about the location of every single one of them, every time. So does the rest of the family or those members in your group. Trying to explain to the authorities how little Timmy got a shotgun blast to the face might be interesting. Post-SHTF might not be a big deal, but little Timmy might think it is.

Statistics: Posted by Cast Iron — Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:05 am


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Hide in plain sight OR Wall around home

April 4, 2017 oldasrocks 0

Of course you buy the land before building the bunker. As far as traps, forget them. You grow natural defenses like blackberry bushes, Thorn trees planted close together, Poison ivy fields fertilized. Not traps but defenses. There are several ivy’s that are virtually impossible to walk through. Funnel the enemy around your place. The trick would be to “build” the greenery to make it look like a natural occurrence not manufactured. CAmo covered draw bridge to get there across a nasty ravine. Manufactured swampy area on the roof of the hidey hole to hide from sat searches.

I’m just a mere billion bucks short to build the place I want.

Statistics: Posted by oldasrocks — Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:11 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Hide in plain sight OR Wall around home

April 4, 2017 IceFire 0

Either one has drawbacks.

The problem with the walled home is that people know the home is there, and will figure that if you’ve bothered to put that kind of a wall around your home, you MUST have something that would make it worth their attempt to breach said wall.

As for the bunker in the woods, WHO owns the woods where said bunker would be located? Also, having the traps everywhere could be a liability issue pre-SHTF, and whether you do (or especially if you DON’T own the property,) you’d be in deep doo-doo if anyone stumbled across your bunker or got hurt by your traps.

Statistics: Posted by IceFire — Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:42 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Hide in plain sight OR Wall around home

April 4, 2017 TheHiddenPrepper 0

Okay this is a big debate between a few preppers I know, is it better to build an underground bunker hidden in the woods or is it better to build walls around a home and protect it.
For the hidden bunker there are traps everywhere, spike falls, tripwire shotguns, etc.
For the home with walls, the walls are made of concrete poured into cinder blocks, steel tread plates on the wall, and spikes/ barbed wire.
This may seem like something that would never happen, but just theoretically, which would be better?

Statistics: Posted by TheHiddenPrepper — Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:10 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Selling Your Standing Timber?

March 15, 2017 Blondie 0

Just wanted to say thanks to angie for the good info should anyone need it.

I did find a listing for the state lumberman’s assn. Good info and some links. One guy buys standing pine for palletts and another guy posted his portable sawmill rates online so I’m hopeful.

Again everybody-thanks much!

Statistics: Posted by Blondie — Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:25 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Selling Your Standing Timber?

March 15, 2017 Blondie 0

Just wanted to say thanks to angie for the good info should anyone need it.

I did find a listing for the state lumberman’s assn. Good info and some links. One guy buys standing pine for palletts and another guy posted his portable sawmill rates online so I’m hopeful.

Again everybody-thanks much!

Statistics: Posted by Blondie — Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:25 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Selling Your Standing Timber?

March 14, 2017 angie_nrs 0

The following comments do not address the OP’s original post, but I wanted to add a few things for anyone who stumbles on this thread later as it is a good topic.

Here’s a few recommendations for anyone planning on selling their standing timber.

Definitely get at least 3 timber buyers to come and look at your property. Don’t automatically go with the buyer that gives you the highest price. If you do, you may regret it. Do your homework if you don’t want to get fleeced. How long has this buyer been in business? Do they have proofs of insurance (liability and work comp) that their insurance company can send you? Do they do a proper cleanup…..do they cut the tops or chip the tops? Can you see the last 3 jobs they have done? Do they have recommendations or can you talk to the owners of the last 3 jobs? Do they own their own equipment? Are they SFI (sustainable forestry) certified? Will they market all the wood or just certain species or types? What will they pay you for each type? Ask them if waiting for your timber to mature or for the markets to bounce back is a good idea. A reputable forester may very well tell you it’s best to wait a few years.

The reason I say to have their insurance company send the insurance proofs is that there have been crooks that white out the expiration dates and enter their own and then send you copies of their “fake” proofs. If it comes directly from the insurance company it will be valid. A reputable logger/forester will have no problem having their insurance company send you proofs. Note that Amish mills will not have comp, which is one of the reasons they may make you a better offer, as comp is very expensive for loggers and truckers. But, many of the Amish mills won’t cut or truck your wood either….they contract that out to loggers and truckers. However, you don’t want to have a logger or trucker (without comp) on your property and get hurt. If they don’t have comp, guess who’s insurance they are going to go after? So, if the logger or trucker is contracted out, contact those companies and get proofs of comp or have the mill do that for you.

If you decide on a logger, ask them to give you scale sheets of all the loads leaving your property every day or week . Make sure you know the difference between pulp wood, bolt wood and veneer…..listed least valuable to most valuable. The veneer will likely have individual barcodes (after they have been bought) put on them as they are very valuable. It’s not uncommon for landowners to not have much, if any, veneer. If you do have veneer, you should contact 2-3 veneer buyers and have them come out and bid on it. They will do this for even a couple of veneer logs as they can be very valuable. But, keep an eye out in the difference between bolt wood (that mills can use for boards) and pulp wood (that mills can use for paper pulp or particle board) or is used for firewood. I’ve seen crook loggers who will give a landowner a scale sheet for wood and tell them it’s pulp wood but then take it to a bolt wood mill. Granted, this doesn’t happen often….but I have seen it happen. The best bet for you is to get a copy of the scale sheet from the place that actually buys the wood. Most of the time the trucker will get a slip when the drop the load off. Most mills do not buy both pulp and bolts so just the mill name on the scale ticket will tell you what kind of wood it is. That’s not always possible, but it’s worth asking for. I would also set up a trail cam so you can see the loads leaving the property. You can pretty much tell what kind of wood it is just by looking at the side of the log truck and trailer. Plus, you can make sure you know how many loads have left your property each day.

Also when a logger/forester gives you an estimate on your forest…..keep in mind….it is an estimate. Anyone that absolutely guarantees you a specific dollar amount, I’d be very weary about. There was a local crook around here who did that and he would pay half up front. The landowners would never see another penny. Their property was ransacked and he was gone. When the landowners tried to go after him legally, they found out they were last in a long line of others and there was nothing to go after. He gambled the money away and didn’t own a single piece of equipment and had zero net worth. His “contracts” for his ‘LLC company’ were worthless. He moved on to another area after about 5 years or so when the law started coming after him. Not surprisingly, he was difficult to pin down. I don’t think he ever went to jail b/c he set up the LLC, but I really don’t know what the end result was. I wouldn’t be surprised if he is in another state doing the same thing he did here. He was FULL of excuses of why the checks weren’t coming in. He’d keep telling the landowners he just needed to wait to get paid from the mill before he could pay them so the landowners would give him time. He originally got landowners contact information at the court house. He would go through the plat book, find those parcels that were large, and send the landowners an offer in the mail. It was amazing how many of those landowners contacted HIM back and gave him the go ahead. :shakeno::thumbdown:

Clearly the larger your piece of property is and the longer amount of time that is has been untouched, along with the species of the wood will have an impact on how much your timber is worth. It never hurts to contact friends or neighbors about their experiences with past cuttings. What would they do differently? Were they happy with the job? You can never have too many opinions. Call local mills and ask questions. Call local log truck drivers and ask who they would recommend if it was their property? Contact local timber or logging organizations and ask them what their recommendations are for folks in your area. If the folks had done any of these things who dealt with the crook I was talking about above, they never would have gotten taken for a ride. A few phone calls may not be all it takes to get the very best logger, but it will prevent you from using someone who has a bad reputation.

Statistics: Posted by angie_nrs — Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:33 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Selling Your Standing Timber?

March 14, 2017 angie_nrs 0

The following comments do not address the OP’s original post, but I wanted to add a few things for anyone who stumbles on this thread later as it is a good topic.

Here’s a few recommendations for anyone planning on selling their standing timber.

Definitely get at least 3 timber buyers to come and look at your property. Don’t automatically go with the buyer that gives you the highest price. If you do, you may regret it. Do your homework if you don’t want to get fleeced. How long has this buyer been in business? Do they have proofs of insurance (liability and work comp) that their insurance company can send you? Do they do a proper cleanup…..do they cut the tops or chip the tops? Can you see the last 3 jobs they have done? Do they have recommendations or can you talk to the owners of the last 3 jobs? Do they own their own equipment? Are they SFI (sustainable forestry) certified? Will they market all the wood or just certain species or types? What will they pay you for each type? Ask them if waiting for your timber to mature or for the markets to bounce back is a good idea. A reputable forester may very well tell you it’s best to wait a few years.

The reason I say to have their insurance company send the insurance proofs is that there have been crooks that white out the expiration dates and enter their own and then send you copies of their “fake” proofs. If it comes directly from the insurance company it will be valid. A reputable logger/forester will have no problem having their insurance company send you proofs. Note that Amish mills will not have comp, which is one of the reasons they may make you a better offer, as comp is very expensive for loggers and truckers. But, many of the Amish mills won’t cut or truck your wood either….they contract that out to loggers and truckers. However, you don’t want to have a logger or trucker (without comp) on your property and get hurt. If they don’t have comp, guess who’s insurance they are going to go after? So, if the logger or trucker is contracted out, contact those companies and get proofs of comp or have the mill do that for you.

If you decide on a logger, ask them to give you scale sheets of all the loads leaving your property every day or week . Make sure you know the difference between pulp wood, bolt wood and veneer…..listed least valuable to most valuable. The veneer will likely have individual barcodes (after they have been bought) put on them as they are very valuable. It’s not uncommon for landowners to not have much, if any, veneer. If you do have veneer, you should contact 2-3 veneer buyers and have them come out and bid on it. They will do this for even a couple of veneer logs as they can be very valuable. But, keep an eye out in the difference between bolt wood (that mills can use for boards) and pulp wood (that mills can use for paper pulp or particle board) or is used for firewood. I’ve seen crook loggers who will give a landowner a scale sheet for wood and tell them it’s pulp wood but then take it to a bolt wood mill. Granted, this doesn’t happen often….but I have seen it happen. The best bet for you is to get a copy of the scale sheet from the place that actually buys the wood. Most of the time the trucker will get a slip when the drop the load off. Most mills do not buy both pulp and bolts so just the mill name on the scale ticket will tell you what kind of wood it is. That’s not always possible, but it’s worth asking for. I would also set up a trail cam so you can see the loads leaving the property. You can pretty much tell what kind of wood it is just by looking at the side of the log truck and trailer. Plus, you can make sure you know how many loads have left your property each day.

Also when a logger/forester gives you an estimate on your forest…..keep in mind….it is an estimate. Anyone that absolutely guarantees you a specific dollar amount, I’d be very weary about. There was a local crook around here who did that and he would pay half up front. The landowners would never see another penny. Their property was ransacked and he was gone. When the landowners tried to go after him legally, they found out they were last in a long line of others and there was nothing to go after. He gambled the money away and didn’t own a single piece of equipment and had zero net worth. His “contracts” for his ‘LLC company’ were worthless. He moved on to another area after about 5 years or so when the law started coming after him. Not surprisingly, he was difficult to pin down. I don’t think he ever went to jail b/c he set up the LLC, but I really don’t know what the end result was. I wouldn’t be surprised if he is in another state doing the same thing he did here. He was FULL of excuses of why the checks weren’t coming in. He’d keep telling the landowners he just needed to wait to get paid from the mill before he could pay them so the landowners would give him time. He originally got landowners contact information at the court house. He would go through the plat book, find those parcels that were large, and send the landowners an offer in the mail. It was amazing how many of those landowners contacted HIM back and gave him the go ahead. :shakeno::thumbdown:

Clearly the larger your piece of property is and the longer amount of time that is has been untouched, along with the species of the wood will have an impact on how much your timber is worth. It never hurts to contact friends or neighbors about their experiences with past cuttings. What would they do differently? Were they happy with the job? You can never have too many opinions. Call local mills and ask questions. Call local log truck drivers and ask who they would recommend if it was their property? Contact local timber or logging organizations and ask them what their recommendations are for folks in your area. If the folks had done any of these things who dealt with the crook I was talking about above, they never would have gotten taken for a ride. A few phone calls may not be all it takes to get the very best logger, but it will prevent you from using someone who has a bad reputation.

Statistics: Posted by angie_nrs — Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:33 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Selling Your Standing Timber?

March 14, 2017 ajax727 0

It is simple if you want to sell the timber , a smart move would be to find a company that will walk over the track and he will tell you how many tons of trees it will produce and the market value .
Timber buyers will give you a price so you get a check if you sell but beware timber buyer gets a cut and the logger gets a cut . so get several bids sealed bids ! , just don’t get ripped off .

Statistics: Posted by ajax727 — Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:32 pm