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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Iron doors?

May 29, 2017 IceFire 0

When we were in Germany the first time back in the early 1980’s, out German apartment had these roll down metal shutters much like the OP was talking about. They operated with a counterweight and rolled up or down as desired. I do know that they still use them in Europe but don’t know if anyone here in the US makes them.

Statistics: Posted by IceFire — Sun May 28, 2017 8:35 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Iron doors?

May 28, 2017 TRex2 0

Is invasion by a platoon sized gang of armed invaders the only scenario
worth prepping for? My preps are geared towards serious natural disasters
and predatory animals in groups of half dozen or less.

If you plan to deal with anything larger than squad sized gangs incursions,
you need a neighborhood defense force and bug out plan. (And if you are
militant enough, a plan to return to fight a war of attrition.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p … 0Attrition)

Statistics: Posted by TRex2 — Sun May 28, 2017 5:34 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Iron doors?

May 28, 2017 Halmic73 0

This is a good question but you might want to reconsider the bug-in. I think a situation that requires you to bug-in and also requires the secured perimeter you are asking about won’t work because 1) as mentioned above it is fairly easy to enter through the wall adjacent to the door/window, 2) having the secured perimeter will attract more attention, and 3) you can’t stay inside forever and when you eventually left if you survived someone would or should be watching the place.

It would be better to have a written set of events that would occur that triggered you to bug-out. You are less likely to stay in a hazardous situation if you have it written out before craziness hits.

For general security you can order perimeter doors that are steel with a solid core. If the wooden core is not suitable order a hollow one and fill it with Concrete or sand yourself. Keep sheets of plywood and nails/screws with a Solar chargeable screen on hand to board up windows.

Statistics: Posted by Halmic73 — Sun May 28, 2017 5:25 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Iron doors?

May 28, 2017 Norman11 0

Google Roll UP Hurricane Shutters. They sell several types of window security. Home depot sells replacement steel doors that look like wood . All these things will slow someone down but will not stop them if really determined to get in. A fence post driver filled with cement will take a door off its hinges. You need to keep them away from the house. Maybe a moat with alligators

Norman11

Statistics: Posted by Norman11 — Sun May 28, 2017 1:32 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Iron doors?

May 28, 2017 ajax727 0

It can be done but you would need deep pockets , just hit a button and seal up all windows . over head tracks , a few gear motors , chains , auto stops wishers , steel plate . 2″ steel plate bullet (proof) pipe to support the weight and a pad poured ground level for the pipe to be attached to .
You can build a steel door and frame but the walls to frame would be weak unless you beefed up the walls or pour a pad and let the door frame legs extend into the concrete .
And a redneck jack of all trades builder .

Statistics: Posted by ajax727 — Sat May 27, 2017 8:14 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Iron doors?

May 28, 2017 ajax727 0

It can be done but you would need deep pockets , just hit a button and seal up all windows . over head tracks , a few gear motors , chains , auto stops wishers , steel plate . 2″ steel plate bullet (proof) pipe to support the weight and a pad poured ground level for the pipe to be attached to .
You can build a steel door and frame but the walls to frame would be weak unless you beefed up the walls or pour a pad and let the door frame legs extend into the concrete .
And a redneck jack of all trades builder .

Statistics: Posted by ajax727 — Sat May 27, 2017 8:14 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Iron doors?

May 28, 2017 TRex2 0

I was looking at this thread and wondering, (since it was why I was
looking at this thread:
What about those standard warehouse entrance doors
that are basically a medium weight steel door?

The picture of the hurricane door or shutter seems to be gone, also…

As I was saying, I was looking at this thread to find sources for those industrial
building doors. I have a root cellar planned, and want it to double as a tornado
shelter. I plan to use a regular wooden door, or maybe a storm door, for the
outer one, and want something kinda rugged for the inside door.

peekachoo wrote:
Forget doors, I can walk through most walls in minutes. Brick and block are easy with a 12 lb hammer.

If I built the block wall, you would be in for a rude awakening after a few swings
of that hammer. That is when you would figure out I used rebar. (I have done
a little bit of concrete work…)

Statistics: Posted by TRex2 — Sat May 27, 2017 7:37 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Iron doors?

May 28, 2017 TRex2 0

I was looking at this thread and wondering, (since it was why I was
looking at this thread:
What about those standard warehouse entrance doors
that are basically a medium weight steel door?

The picture of the hurricane door or shutter seems to be gone, also…

As I was saying, I was looking at this thread to find sources for those industrial
building doors. I have a root cellar planned, and want it to double as a tornado
shelter. I plan to use a regular wooden door, or maybe a storm door, for the
outer one, and want something kinda rugged for the inside door.

peekachoo wrote:
Forget doors, I can walk through most walls in minutes. Brick and block are easy with a 12 lb hammer.

If I built the block wall, you would be in for a rude awakening after a few swings
of that hammer. That is when you would figure out I used rebar. (I have done
a little bit of concrete work…)

Statistics: Posted by TRex2 — Sat May 27, 2017 7:37 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Phillips screws vs regular screws

May 11, 2017 Photon Guy 0
Gunns wrote:
And there ladies and gentlemen is a very good history lesson. Thanks Everyman I had no idea and this kind of stuff is cool to hear or read.

On another note, welcome back.

I use almost exclusively Serrated Head Star Drive screws.

Well it is a good lesson but anyway Gunns, its nice to have you reply to this thread, and especially considering your username that brings me up to my next point, the screws in guns are all too often single slot screws. What drove me to start this thread is this screw in my Heritage Rough Rider revolver that’s a single slot screw and all my small screwdrivers are phillips screw drivers. Now you don’t use glue with the screws in guns and stuff isn’t going to get into the slots, especially if you keep the gun well cleaned. So it makes sense that the screws in guns would always be Phillips screws.

Statistics: Posted by Photon Guy — Thu May 11, 2017 1:45 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Phillips screws vs regular screws

May 11, 2017 Photon Guy 0
Everyman wrote:
When wood was extensively used in yacht and ship building slotted wood screws were an absolute requirement. Boat hulls were typically built from clear cabinet grade mahogany screwed to oak frames. All the care in the construction was identical to fine cabinet making. The wood was treated as a precision material. When a hull was planked the planks were fastened to the frames with bronze screws that were counter bored into the planks. The counter bore was then filled with a plug that was glued in place. Often, after years of use the screws had to be replaced. The planks were fine but the screws would become wasted. So shipwrights would pull the plugs and replace the screws. One problem they always had was that the glue used to hold the plug filled the slot of the screw. It was a simple matter to take a straight bladed screwdriver and ‘chisel’ out the glue from the slot so a larger bit (turned by a brace) could be used to remove the screw. If you use a phillips head screw in this application it would be a nightmare to remove the screws because it is tedious to remove glue from a phillips head screw. The same thing is true of screws that are countersunk, puttied over and painted.

That makes sense, but most of the time you’re not going to be using screws where you’ve got glue or other stuff that can get in the slots so except for specific situations, such as the one you mentioned, I don’t see why phillips screws wouldn’t be used all the time.

Statistics: Posted by Photon Guy — Thu May 11, 2017 1:42 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Phillips screws vs regular screws

May 11, 2017 Gunns 0
Everyman wrote:
When wood was extensively used in yacht and ship building slotted wood screws were an absolute requirement. Boat hulls were typically built from clear cabinet grade mahogany screwed to oak frames. All the care in the construction was identical to fine cabinet making. The wood was treated as a precision material. When a hull was planked the planks were fastened to the frames with bronze screws that were counter bored into the planks. The counter bore was then filled with a plug that was glued in place. Often, after years of use the screws had to be replaced. The planks were fine but the screws would become wasted. So shipwrights would pull the plugs and replace the screws. One problem they always had was that the glue used to hold the plug filled the slot of the screw. It was a simple matter to take a straight bladed screwdriver and ‘chisel’ out the glue from the slot so a larger bit (turned by a brace) could be used to remove the screw. If you use a phillips head screw in this application it would be a nightmare to remove the screws because it is tedious to remove glue from a phillips head screw. The same thing is true of screws that are countersunk, puttied over and painted.

And there ladies and gentlemen is a very good history lesson. Thanks Everyman I had no idea and this kind of stuff is cool to hear or read.

On another note, welcome back.

I use almost exclusively Serrated Head Star Drive screws.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Thu May 11, 2017 9:30 am


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Phillips screws vs regular screws

May 10, 2017 Everyman 0

When wood was extensively used in yacht and ship building slotted wood screws were an absolute requirement. Boat hulls were typically built from clear cabinet grade mahogany screwed to oak frames. All the care in the construction was identical to fine cabinet making. The wood was treated as a precision material. When a hull was planked the planks were fastened to the frames with bronze screws that were counter bored into the planks. The counter bore was then filled with a plug that was glued in place. Often, after years of use the screws had to be replaced. The planks were fine but the screws would become wasted. So shipwrights would pull the plugs and replace the screws. One problem they always had was that the glue used to hold the plug filled the slot of the screw. It was a simple matter to take a straight bladed screwdriver and ‘chisel’ out the glue from the slot so a larger bit (turned by a brace) could be used to remove the screw. If you use a phillips head screw in this application it would be a nightmare to remove the screws because it is tedious to remove glue from a phillips head screw. The same thing is true of screws that are countersunk, puttied over and painted.

Statistics: Posted by Everyman — Wed May 10, 2017 1:30 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Phillips screws vs regular screws

May 10, 2017 sageprice 0

I am not an authority on this but it was explained to me in the following way:
Anything with a circular thread is a screw.
As screw becomes a bolt if it has a nut on it if not its still a screw. (machine screw)
any difference in the head are only attempts to increase or spread the applied pressure to the surface. (cap screws verses flanged)
Any differences in the drive point are attempts at transfer more torque (twisting motion) to the screw. phillips vs slotted vs torx vs square vs hexhead (allen).
Thus is my complete knowledge on the subject.

Statistics: Posted by sageprice — Wed May 10, 2017 12:23 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Phillips screws vs regular screws

May 10, 2017 sageprice 0

I am not an authority on this but it was explained to me in the following way:
Anything with a circular thread is a screw.
As screw becomes a bolt if it has a nut on it if not its still a screw. (machine screw)
any difference in the head are only attempts to increase or spread the applied pressure to the surface. (cap screws verses flanged)
Any differences in the drive point are attempts at transfer more torque (twisting motion) to the screw. phillips vs slotted vs torx vs square vs hexhead (allen).
Thus is my complete knowledge on the subject.

Statistics: Posted by sageprice — Wed May 10, 2017 12:23 pm


Construction Cornerstone • Re: Phillips screws vs regular screws

May 8, 2017 rickdun 0

Photon, they make about 50 or more different head screw styles anymore, I have a 20 pack of bits for screws and every bit is a different size, different depth, different dimension, different pattern, etc.. That’s not including security screws, metric/american sizes, kinda like wrenches, open end, box end, metric, american, half open, half closed, straight, curved, S shaped, etc..

Manufacturers just can’t leave things simple, it’s all about the almighty dollar anymore. :help:

But, I buy all standard screws, phillips and standard, it makes it simple for me.

Statistics: Posted by rickdun — Mon May 08, 2017 6:55 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Phillips screws vs regular screws

May 8, 2017 rickdun 0

Photon, they make about 50 or more different head screw styles anymore, I have a 20 pack of bits for screws and every bit is a different size, different depth, different dimension, different pattern, etc.. That’s not including security screws, metric/american sizes, kinda like wrenches, open end, box end, metric, american, half open, half closed, straight, curved, S shaped, etc..

Manufacturers just can’t leave things simple, it’s all about the almighty dollar anymore. :help:

But, I buy all standard screws, phillips and standard, it makes it simple for me.

Statistics: Posted by rickdun — Mon May 08, 2017 6:55 pm


Construction Cornerstone • Re: Phillips screws vs regular screws

May 8, 2017 Illini Warrior 0
Photon Guy wrote:
The screw is an ancient invention. Supposedly there’s evidence that there were screws around as early as the 3rd century B.C. Anyway, from what I know sometime in the mid 20th century they came out with the Phillips screw. The Phillips screw was a new and improved design and its distinguishable with its cross head design. So I was wondering why today all screws aren’t Phillips screws? Its supposed to work better than the old fashioned single slot screw so I don’t see why they still make the old single slot screws. I particularly find this frustrating when I need to turn a screw and its an old single slot screw and all I’ve got are Phillips screw drivers. You can sometimes use a regular screw driver to turn a Phillips screw but you can’t use a Phillips screw driver to turn a regular screw. So like I said, its frustrating.

then a square drive or clutch head is really going to pizz you off …

Statistics: Posted by Illini Warrior — Mon May 08, 2017 6:41 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Phillips screws vs regular screws

May 8, 2017 Illini Warrior 0
Photon Guy wrote:
The screw is an ancient invention. Supposedly there’s evidence that there were screws around as early as the 3rd century B.C. Anyway, from what I know sometime in the mid 20th century they came out with the Phillips screw. The Phillips screw was a new and improved design and its distinguishable with its cross head design. So I was wondering why today all screws aren’t Phillips screws? Its supposed to work better than the old fashioned single slot screw so I don’t see why they still make the old single slot screws. I particularly find this frustrating when I need to turn a screw and its an old single slot screw and all I’ve got are Phillips screw drivers. You can sometimes use a regular screw driver to turn a Phillips screw but you can’t use a Phillips screw driver to turn a regular screw. So like I said, its frustrating.

then a square drive or clutch head is really going to pizz you off …

Statistics: Posted by Illini Warrior — Mon May 08, 2017 6:41 pm


Construction Cornerstone • Phillips screws vs regular screws

May 8, 2017 Photon Guy 0

The screw is an ancient invention. Supposedly there’s evidence that there were screws around as early as the 3rd century B.C. Anyway, from what I know sometime in the mid 20th century they came out with the Phillips screw. The Phillips screw was a new and improved design and its distinguishable with its cross head design. So I was wondering why today all screws aren’t Phillips screws? Its supposed to work better than the old fashioned single slot screw so I don’t see why they still make the old single slot screws. I particularly find this frustrating when I need to turn a screw and its an old single slot screw and all I’ve got are Phillips screw drivers. You can sometimes use a regular screw driver to turn a Phillips screw but you can’t use a Phillips screw driver to turn a regular screw. So like I said, its frustrating.

Statistics: Posted by Photon Guy — Mon May 08, 2017 6:37 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Phillips screws vs regular screws

May 8, 2017 Photon Guy 0

The screw is an ancient invention. Supposedly there’s evidence that there were screws around as early as the 3rd century B.C. Anyway, from what I know sometime in the mid 20th century they came out with the Phillips screw. The Phillips screw was a new and improved design and its distinguishable with its cross head design. So I was wondering why today all screws aren’t Phillips screws? Its supposed to work better than the old fashioned single slot screw so I don’t see why they still make the old single slot screws. I particularly find this frustrating when I need to turn a screw and its an old single slot screw and all I’ve got are Phillips screw drivers. You can sometimes use a regular screw driver to turn a Phillips screw but you can’t use a Phillips screw driver to turn a regular screw. So like I said, its frustrating.

Statistics: Posted by Photon Guy — Mon May 08, 2017 6:37 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Hide in plain sight OR Wall around home

April 6, 2017 Permafrost 0
Cin wrote:
They followed their food during the seasons, but I’m sure they went hungry a lot, too.

Of course, with the billions of folks on this planet now, that way of life is hardly sustainable.

There is a modern equivalent to this, it is called living a subsistence lifestyle. You have a fish camp in one area with good salmon runs and probably just have a little shack & a smokehouse. You have a fall/spring hunting camp in another area with another little shack & a meat pole. You have a summer cabin with your gardens. And you have numerous line shacks for your trap lines in the winter. In reality most of these camps are somewhat permanent now because there is no need to drag your stuff all across the landscape, but it can easily be done with a tent as well. I did it out of a tent for years until I decided where I wanted my areas to be. Yes people go hungry occasionally on a bad year, but it is not that hard to live this lifestyle. If your really lucky you can get a area where 2 or 3 seasons/food sources are at the same location.

Statistics: Posted by Permafrost — Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:53 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Hide in plain sight OR Wall around home

April 6, 2017 Permafrost 0
Cin wrote:
They followed their food during the seasons, but I’m sure they went hungry a lot, too.

Of course, with the billions of folks on this planet now, that way of life is hardly sustainable.

There is a modern equivalent to this, it is called living a subsistence lifestyle. You have a fish camp in one area with good salmon runs and probably just have a little shack & a smokehouse. You have a fall/spring hunting camp in another area with another little shack & a meat pole. You have a summer cabin with your gardens. And you have numerous line shacks for your trap lines in the winter. In reality most of these camps are somewhat permanent now because there is no need to drag your stuff all across the landscape, but it can easily be done with a tent as well. I did it out of a tent for years until I decided where I wanted my areas to be. Yes people go hungry occasionally on a bad year, but it is not that hard to live this lifestyle. If your really lucky you can get a area where 2 or 3 seasons/food sources are at the same location.

Statistics: Posted by Permafrost — Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:53 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Hide in plain sight OR Wall around home

April 5, 2017 Cast Iron 0
Cin wrote:
Sometimes, I wonder of the nomadic people were nomadic just to stay out harm’s way. Especially the Native Americans could up and move without anyone knowing they’d gone or where they taken off to. something to be said for traveling light and only being about to take what you could carry. They followed their food during the seasons, but I’m sure they went hungry a lot, too.

Of course, with the billions of folks on this planet now, that way of life is hardly sustainable.

Well, is not the American way of life so myopic, many to most would die in the first few months and to a degree, after the first year?

Statistics: Posted by Cast Iron — Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:25 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Hide in plain sight OR Wall around home

April 5, 2017 Cast Iron 0
Cin wrote:
Sometimes, I wonder of the nomadic people were nomadic just to stay out harm’s way. Especially the Native Americans could up and move without anyone knowing they’d gone or where they taken off to. something to be said for traveling light and only being about to take what you could carry. They followed their food during the seasons, but I’m sure they went hungry a lot, too.

Of course, with the billions of folks on this planet now, that way of life is hardly sustainable.

Well, is not the American way of life so myopic, many to most would die in the first few months and to a degree, after the first year?

Statistics: Posted by Cast Iron — Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:25 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Hide in plain sight OR Wall around home

April 5, 2017 Cin 0

Sometimes, I wonder of the nomadic people were nomadic just to stay out harm’s way. Especially the Native Americans could up and move without anyone knowing they’d gone or where they taken off to. something to be said for traveling light and only being about to take what you could carry. They followed their food during the seasons, but I’m sure they went hungry a lot, too.

Of course, with the billions of folks on this planet now, that way of life is hardly sustainable.

Statistics: Posted by Cin — Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:47 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Hide in plain sight OR Wall around home

April 4, 2017 Blondie 0

In total agreement with Ice Fire’s comments, who owns the “woods”? And what if some 12 yr old rabbit hunting sets off your “traps”? If it’s well concealed underground, why the need for booby traps?

Then thers’s logistics. If your stash is burried more than a few hundred feet away, how are you going to haul your items back home…..or wherever you’re headed without being seen? And robbed.

Up here you’ll contend with a good foot or two in snowcover several months of the year.

When building your fortress, make sure it’s to code. You’re keeping out firefighting equipment, EMS/ambulance as well as the bad guys. As Illini said, the cops will think you’re cooking meth.

Statistics: Posted by Blondie — Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:26 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Hide in plain sight OR Wall around home

April 4, 2017 Permafrost 0

I’m honestly not a fan of either. I believe in extreme isolation for my defenses, hundreds of miles of rivers & swamps in the summer and ice & snow in the winter make a great buffer. A walled home is like a castle, it is a big target that can be laid siege to. A hidden bunker is never really hidden, you have ventilation ports and entrances that can expose your position with thermal imaging. A determined adversary will eventually get into either one.

Likewise I am not a fan of traps. To begin with they will are a constant hazard for you and yours when moving around, trip carrying firewood in the wrong spot & your done. Dogs are a big part of my life as well, and a trap injuring or killing one of the dogs not only puts me out a valuable member of my family (team) that hauls my supplies but it diminishes my perimeter security and alarm system. Traps also have the added bonus of destroying any meat that walks into my yard, every spring I get a bear within 50 feet of my cabin (its great I don’t have to pack meat) and traps would interfere with my meat resupply plan.

Statistics: Posted by Permafrost — Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:23 pm


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Hide in plain sight OR Wall around home

April 4, 2017 ajax727 0

Cin who knows they could be survivalists , bad or good people or they just want to left alone .
If they have stuff placed around that would aid in a defensive stand against entry then they might be smart people .
I have stuff placed here and there that could be used to defend my place . Old equipment , tires , boats , junk cars , trucks and barrels just stuff setting around in the correct places .

Statistics: Posted by ajax727 — Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:51 am


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Hide in plain sight OR Wall around home

April 4, 2017 Illini Warrior 0
Cin wrote:
There’s a junky yard down the road from us. Husband and I are convinced the people are survivalists. We see the same cars and ATV go in and out with regularity, they look fairly new, and the people don’t speak much (we’ve crossed paths with them). We’ve been told there’s a nice home back there, if one is ever invited to visit.

The junk is positioned around the property, slightly overgrown, and yet, there’s a couple old trailers near the front, and the windows are always visible, despite the weeds and brush overgrowing everything else. If you stare at the property long enough (we try not to) – the trailers are forward defense. The old cars scattered about are to hide behind to get out of a field of fire. And the broken down crane with the bucket still in the air, well a person in it can hide and see for miles around.

Or it’s just an old junk yard with rotting carcasses of cars/mobile homes, nothing to see or salvage here, move along.

sounds more like they are cooking meth or have kidnapped teenagers chained up ….

Statistics: Posted by Illini Warrior — Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:49 am


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Hide in plain sight OR Wall around home

April 4, 2017 Cin 0

There’s a junky yard down the road from us. Husband and I are convinced the people are survivalists. We see the same cars and ATV go in and out with regularity, they look fairly new, and the people don’t speak much (we’ve crossed paths with them). We’ve been told there’s a nice home back there, if one is ever invited to visit.

The junk is positioned around the property, slightly overgrown, and yet, there’s a couple old trailers near the front, and the windows are always visible, despite the weeds and brush overgrowing everything else. If you stare at the property long enough (we try not to) – the trailers are forward defense. The old cars scattered about are to hide behind to get out of a field of fire. And the broken down crane with the bucket still in the air, well a person in it can hide and see for miles around.

Or it’s just an old junk yard with rotting carcasses of cars/mobile homes, nothing to see or salvage here, move along.

Statistics: Posted by Cin — Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:24 am


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Hide in plain sight OR Wall around home

April 4, 2017 Cast Iron 0

Both would require serious heavy machinery.
In the woods, that machinery would leave tracks and be visible from aerial views.
Right now, on google maps, I can see my ATV tracks. I can even see the livestock, their fencing, and tell old paddocks from new ones.

If it is possible, build the walled house, then sheath it in vinyl siding and make it look like every other house built in the past twenty or so years.

Realistically comes down to cost.
Might be cheaper and more realistic to make modifications to the surroundings to make the homestead more defensible.

Traps are a bad idea. You have to know about the location of every single one of them, every time. So does the rest of the family or those members in your group. Trying to explain to the authorities how little Timmy got a shotgun blast to the face might be interesting. Post-SHTF might not be a big deal, but little Timmy might think it is.

Statistics: Posted by Cast Iron — Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:05 am


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Construction Cornerstone • Re: Hide in plain sight OR Wall around home

April 4, 2017 oldasrocks 0

Of course you buy the land before building the bunker. As far as traps, forget them. You grow natural defenses like blackberry bushes, Thorn trees planted close together, Poison ivy fields fertilized. Not traps but defenses. There are several ivy’s that are virtually impossible to walk through. Funnel the enemy around your place. The trick would be to “build” the greenery to make it look like a natural occurrence not manufactured. CAmo covered draw bridge to get there across a nasty ravine. Manufactured swampy area on the roof of the hidey hole to hide from sat searches.

I’m just a mere billion bucks short to build the place I want.

Statistics: Posted by oldasrocks — Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:11 pm