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First Aid & Medicine • Re: Anesthesia – How?

February 18, 2017 Murby 0

This is turning out to be more complicated than I was initially giving it credit for… Lots more work to be done.

You all have to admit, being able to successfully anesthetize someone in a SHFT situation could make life a lot easier and a lot less ugly when it comes to the inevitable injuries that will occur.

Statistics: Posted by Murby — Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:20 pm


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General Food Topics • Re: Wacky LDS calculator or am I missing something?

February 18, 2017 Murby 0
RockinB wrote:
We used this calculator as a guide too. Our family numbers are a lot higher and we are very close on the quantities in the main “shtf” category’s that matter to us.
We’re finished prepping “shtf” food storage and have no intentions of ever using it. Peace of mind without maintaining a rigorous rotation schedule works best for us.

Well that’s certainly one way of doing it.. I plan on doing the same with our wheat berries.. Not really interested in wasting my time grinding them up so hopefully they turn out to be a waste of money.

But our canned soups are delicious.. better than anything that comes out of a cambells soup can.. I eat our canned foods all the time and I don’t do it reluctantly.. After working outside in the cold weather, its nice to be able to pop a quart jar of soup into the microwave and have it ready in 4 minutes.

Statistics: Posted by Murby — Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:14 am


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First Aid & Medicine • Re: Anesthesia – How?

February 18, 2017 Murby 0
DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE wrote:
Regardless of the discussions a forum might bring on homebrewed concoctions, it’s just too dangerous to have this discussion for the idiots that might read it later and think they’re a super educated DIY’er and kills an entire family at home accidently practicing their newfound internet skills….Not a good idea at all even if you didn’t care about the illegal aspect of it.

No, I’m sorry but I completely disagree.. Basing one’s conversations on the potential actions of others is no different than saying “We shouldn’t sell guns because people might hurt themselves”

I agree with most here…more harm than good. Risk outweighs the benefits for the patient.

Don’t forget the versatility of a human to begin with…. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aron_Ralston

In grid-down/SHTF scenarios, there’s just going to be death in some situations period….You’ll do what you can, sure, of course….. But without sterile environments with trained medical personnel, in some situations you’re just going to die. End of story.

I don’t agree with this either but I do understand your point.. As for the risk/reward profile, that’s the whole point of the conversation… to improve that profile in some way if possible.. and if its not possible then so be it.. but we’ll never know if its not explored. Maybe complete unconsciousness isn’t safe or practical, but maybe 90% is?

Statistics: Posted by Murby — Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:49 am


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First Aid & Medicine • Re: Anesthesia – How?

February 18, 2017 Murby 0
Matte wrote:

Murby wrote:If you needed a limb amputated or a bullet pulled, would you rather die in your sleep from an anesthetic mistake or die in agony from shock?? Not sure about everyone else but I’d choose the anesthesia.

That’s interesting, from the standpoints of say needing an emergency anesthetic for amputating a trapped limb to free a victim or for use as a euthanasia drug (whether that was the intent or not). If it was my arm that was mangled and stuck in a piece of equipment, or my leg trapped under building debris, I might agree that you anesthetize me before taking a hacksaw to my limb.

Still not understanding why you want to manufacture an anesthetic agent yourself however. You wouldn’t be able to produce an agent nearly as pure as even lab grade reagent quality in your kitchen, it’ll require time to do so that you may not have, the supplies and equipment would likely be ten times or more the cost of just purchasing it, and the purchased product will come in an appropriate container (with preservatives and stabilizers, if needed) for transport and storage already. Why make it?

ya! You’re in the same boat as me.. Either put me down or put the hacksaw down!

I’m just wondering what it would take to manufacture the stuff.. I’m an engineer and frequently have to perform lab level testing for clients to verify process parameters for certain production lines. I have a rudimentary laboratory in my basement.. Things like temperature controlled water baths, centrifuge, glassware, Metler-Toledo scales that go to 0.0001 grams, conductivity meters, microscope, vacuum chambers, high temperature oven, etc..

I’m totally unaware of the complexities, which is why I brought the subject up. You’d think that some kind of “knock you unconscious” drug would be a good thing to have for SHTF..

Statistics: Posted by Murby — Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:43 am


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First Aid & Medicine • Re: Anesthesia – How?

February 18, 2017 Murby 0
daaswampman wrote:

Murby wrote:

daaswampman wrote:I am always amused when people bring up the subject of home brewed anesthesia. Do you have the medical experience, supplies, or equipment to need it? Can you manage their oxygen saturation and ventilation while they are under? It would probably “do less harm” to put a bullet in their head than use any home made concoction and call it anesthesia. Swamp

If a few stiff drinks won’t do it, it ain’t gonna happen! Primum non nocere:

That’s kind of the whole point of discussing such things.. People in forums can come together and combine their knowledge. Someone with some expertise in chemistry, someone with medical experience like a nurse, veterinarian, a nurse, a dentist, or even a dental assistant..

Its sometimes surprising what people can come up with when they put their heads together… sometimes, really complex things can be made simple enough to work.

If you needed a limb amputated or a bullet pulled, would you rather die in your sleep from an anesthetic mistake or die in agony from shock?? Not sure about everyone else but I’d choose the anesthesia.

Have you ever seen or participated with an amputation or GSW? I have and would choose pain over the probable brain damage from some home brewed pain juice. Administering anesthesia is far more complex than just having an anesthetic.

Just for the record “agony” is not a symptom of shock. If anything, shock will reduce the patients awareness to pain. I once relocated a big old boys shoulder with ease, because he fainted! Swamp

The main symptom of shock is low blood pressure. Other symptoms include rapid, shallow breathing; cold, clammy skin; rapid, weak pulse; dizziness, fainting, or weakness.

http://www.medicinenet.com/shock/article.htm

That almost sounds like run of the mill Vasovagal syncope..

Thanks for your input.. good information..

Statistics: Posted by Murby — Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:38 am


General Food Topics • Re: Wacky LDS calculator or am I missing something?

February 18, 2017 Murby 0
donba wrote:
I just use this as a guide. We couldn’t live on this kind of diet so we mix in others, three months of freezes dried. Month of MRE, A few months of store bought food. Mix it all up, a years supply of food. Think how boring just eating any one group of food would be. Take your favorite meal eat nothing else, by the end of a week you will be sick of it.

I get that.. we have a huge variety from home canned meat soups (pork, chicken, venison, beef and even fish!) to home canned pork and beans, over 100 cans of store bought tuna (some in water, some in oil), and a variety of other things.

What I learned from the calculator is that I am still very under-stocked and need to increase our supply.

Statistics: Posted by Murby — Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:34 am


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General Food Topics • Wacky LDS calculator or am I missing something?

February 17, 2017 Murby 0

I was checking out the provident living calculator to see what they had to say about food storage..
https://providentliving.com/preparednes … /foodcalc/

Typed in 52 weeks for 3 adults and got some crazy numbers..

Can someone take a look?
1200 lbs grain
180 lbs legumes
90 lbs dairy
180 lbs of sugar :?
18 lbs salt (that one I get)
90 lbs of fats

1200 lbs of grain? WHAT?? That works out to just over a pound of grain per person per day..

Statistics: Posted by Murby — Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:22 am


First Aid & Medicine • Re: Anesthesia – How?

February 17, 2017 Murby 0
daaswampman wrote:
I am always amused when people bring up the subject of home brewed anesthesia. Do you have the medical experience, supplies, or equipment to need it? Can you manage their oxygen saturation and ventilation while they are under? It would probably “do less harm” to put a bullet in their head than use any home made concoction and call it anesthesia. Swamp

If a few stiff drinks won’t do it, it ain’t gonna happen! Primum non nocere:

That’s kind of the whole point of discussing such things.. People in forums can come together and combine their knowledge. Someone with some expertise in chemistry, someone with medical experience like a nurse, veterinarian, a nurse, a dentist, or even a dental assistant..

Its sometimes surprising what people can come up with when they put their heads together… sometimes, really complex things can be made simple enough to work.

If you needed a limb amputated or a bullet pulled, would you rather die in your sleep from an anesthetic mistake or die in agony from shock?? Not sure about everyone else but I’d choose the anesthesia.

Statistics: Posted by Murby — Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:12 pm


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Books • Re: One second after

February 17, 2017 Murby 0

Funny story…
The wife and I have been prepping for the past two months.. we’re doing good.. have about 1000 lbs of food saved for the two of us + child.. The wife is kind of ho-hum about the whole thing… she goes along with it but its more of a “I support you” type of thing and she has this attitude of “well, we’re going to use it anyhow eventually so go ahead and buy it”.. of course this is about food storage stuff..
Then I gave her the book to read.. she got to the big gun fight.. comes into the room and says “We need more ammo.. more guns.. I need one of those assault rifles!” LOL Ya..we’re getting there…

Statistics: Posted by Murby — Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:28 pm


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First Aid & Medicine • Re: Anesthesia – How?

February 16, 2017 Murby 0
Illini Warrior wrote:
a properly educated chemist working in a lab can make chloroform – some boob mixing chemical in Tupperware on his kitchen counter is just asking for trouble – reminds me of DoomsDay’s Pedophile Boy wanting to do a caesarean on the wife …

LOL.. I’m not dumb enough to make drugs or explosives without some training.. But that won’t stop me from exploring the subject…

Statistics: Posted by Murby — Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:54 pm


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Solar • Solar Panel Deal!

February 16, 2017 Murby 0

My wife and I will be installing a solar system this year.. We’re going to ordering a bunch of solarworld 270watt panels.. Made in the USA! Some of the highest quality panels made anywhere.. (google reviews on solar world if you doubt me)

The thing with big solar panels that are 3 x 5 feet is that purchasing just two or three of them is not worth the $300+ shipping cost to get them.. But we’re going to be installing 8000 watts worth of solar system so the cost is minor in comparison.

So with that in mind, if anyone in the Michigan area is interested in purchasing a few solar panels for emergencies, if you want to piggyback on my shippment, you can get them for about $1 per watt.. thats ONE DOLLAR per watt.. So a 300 watt panel would run you about $300.. instead of $300 + $300 in shipping costs.

When I have pallets of panels shipped to me, it won’t make any difference if I order 30 of them or 40 of them.

So if anyone is interested, let me know…. huge savings here..

Statistics: Posted by Murby — Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:43 pm


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Food & Water • Re: WHEAT – Price per pound?

February 16, 2017 Murby 0
DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE wrote:

Illini Warrior wrote:check for shipping with the LDS Church people … https://providentliving.lds.org/bc/prov … f?lang=eng

depending on your location you might be able to do a warehouse pickup …. https://providentliving.lds.org/self-re … s?lang=eng

Well would you look at that! LDS…I had no idea. 1 block from my house too and I’ve lived here all my life…..APN strikes again!!!! Thanks for queuing me into this resource…..”And the blind shall see”…lol

As much as I loath having any kind of association with any church, I did decide to find out what they charge for the wheat.

The 26lb buckets from Walmart w/free shipping still won.. But I’ll admit it was a close call and if the LDS was just a mile down the street, I might have reluctantly went for it.

Statistics: Posted by Murby — Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:36 pm


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General Preparedness Discussion • Re: Looking for information on chemicals

February 16, 2017 Murby 0
DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE wrote:

Pedro wyoming wrote: Knowledge is a powerful thing but a little knowledge is a dangerous tool and a fearful master.

pW

Oooooo…..Me likey. :thumbup:

Thanks for the links Murby

You’re welcome!
This all started several years ago.. We’re on well water and we get rust stains in the shower. One hot summer day, my wife was busy trying to remove them all.. she tried every store bought product she could find.. all claiming to remove the stains but none worked so well. She was there for two hours scrubbing her rear end off on those shower tiles.

I got to thinking that instead of attacking the problem with manual labor, the mind is mightier than the sword and there had to be a better way.. Then it hit me… In my days of designing metal plating systems, I remember that phosphoric acid turned iron oxide into iron phosphate.. Hmm.. its not like I have a 55 gallon drum of phosphoric acid laying around.. But then I remembered when I was a kid rebuilding my hot rod Z28, I used a product called “Rust Mort” that was pretty much just phosphoric acid.. Sure enough, the local hardware store had it in stock.. (even though it had a different name). Brought it home, mixed it 1 part to 4 parts water, put it in the spray bottle, and it took me less than 5 minutes (and zero elbow grease) to clean the shower spotless.. then the dishwasher.. then the toilets, kitchen sink, laundry sink.. There was barely a rusty water stain left in the house by the time I was done.

And all for a $3 bottle of the stuff that I didn’t even use half of.

Knowing what chemicals are in different consumer products can go a long way.. Even better is knowing how to react these products together to make new chemicals..

Statistics: Posted by Murby — Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:34 pm


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First Aid & Medicine • Re: Anesthesia – How?

February 16, 2017 Murby 0
Illini Warrior wrote:

Murby wrote:Anyone figure out how to make some sort of anesthesia in a SHTF situation?

Looks like Chloroform isn’t difficult to make.. not sure about that yet.. seems really dangerous too.

Has anyone come up with any good ideas ? Its not like Propofol will be available and I don’t think most would consider a blow to the head appropriate.

was hoping you wouldn’t even mention DIY chloroform – it’s banned most everywhere on the net ….

Ya.. well.. we need options.. we need a discussion on how to put someone down for minor surgeries like an amputation or yanking a bullet out.. things like that.

Statistics: Posted by Murby — Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:54 pm


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First Aid & Medicine • Anesthesia – How?

February 16, 2017 Murby 0

Anyone figure out how to make some sort of anesthesia in a SHTF situation?

Looks like Chloroform isn’t difficult to make.. not sure about that yet.. seems really dangerous too.

Has anyone come up with any good ideas ? Its not like Propofol will be available and I don’t think most would consider a blow to the head appropriate.

Statistics: Posted by Murby — Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:17 pm


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Food & Water • Re: WHEAT – Price per pound?

February 16, 2017 Murby 0
RockinB wrote:
We buy the Augason farms 26lb square buckets from Walmart at $18 a bucket. Free shipping and we pick it up at the store. All of our wheat and oats are in square buckets from Augason farms ordered online through Walmart. Buy the bucket wrench if you go this route. Much easier to open but you can use a screw driver if you want the exercise and ability to check out your first aide preps.

Are you saying their buckets are somehow different than a normal 5 gallon or pickle bucket lid?

Statistics: Posted by Murby — Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:48 am


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Food & Water • Re: Lets talk Bananas ???

February 16, 2017 Murby 0
donba wrote:
I sort of did both, I dehydrated some and put them in a quart jar (wide mouth), then vacuum and oxygen absorber. Some I bought in a bag Free-dried, they didn’t seam to be dry enough. We put them in the dehydrator and pulled some moisture out of them. Vacuum sealed in a quart jar W/m with oxygen eater. Both seam to be holding up OK. A lot of the “freeze dried’ stuff we can buy seams to have quite a bit of moisture in it. Moisture in dried food seams to lead to spoilage to us, so we dry it out some more. A dehydrator is a lot more efficient than an oven, for drying food….

Do we take into consideration that an oven can reach temperatures dehydrators don’t? There might be something there for killing any bugs or bacteria..

What’s the longest you’ve kept the banana chips in a canning jar for? Any degradation?

Statistics: Posted by Murby — Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:00 am


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Food & Water • Lets talk Bananas ???

February 16, 2017 Murby 0

I want to store some banana chips but have a few questions..

Can I make them myself and store for long term in a canning jar or mylar bag?

Been reading that people make them using just an oven.. wondering how well that works and if its enough to store them long term..

I also have a dehydrator with heater and fan that does great with jerky…

Or should I just go straight to the freeze dried stuff they sell?

I was thinking if I use an oven to dry them, then pack in quart jars, then back into the oven for another round of heating, then put the lid on and pull down a heavy vacuum w/oxy absorber, that should do it.. What do you think?

Statistics: Posted by Murby — Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:04 am


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Food & Water • WHEAT – Price per pound?

February 15, 2017 Murby 0

I need to stock up on some hard white wheat and was wondering what everyone is paying for it? By the time it ships to your home, what is your price per pound work out to?

Statistics: Posted by Murby — Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:17 pm


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General Preparedness Discussion • Looking for information on chemicals

February 11, 2017 Murby 0

Does anyone know where I can find a good list of commonly found products that can be harvested for chemicals?

For instance, if you need sulfuric acid, any car battery..

If you need Methanol, any auto parts store or gas station has the fuel dry additive that is all methanol..

Drain cleaner is Sodium Hydroxide.

Etc, etc…

I’m in the process of putting a library together and will be storing it on DVD’s, CDrom, and a flashdrive.. Then protected with a laptop in a Faraday cage.

Statistics: Posted by Murby — Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:21 am


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Food & Water • Re: Oxygen absorbers or vacuuming?

February 11, 2017 Murby 0

For dried goods like beans, pasta, powdered milk, powdered eggs, etc, here is what I do…

Wash and dry the jars and then stick the empty jars in the oven at 225° for an hour. Turn oven off and let them cool until barely warm. This makes sure they are bone dry and sterile.

Fill them with product

Stick them back in the oven at around 225° to 250°.. but this time you have to monitor them. You want to get the jar hot, but not the contents. Heat the jar up until its just hot enough that you don’t want to pick it up with bare hands.

Pull the jars out one at a time, insert oxygen absorber, place the lid (not the screw ring) on top, then apply deep vacuum to 27 inches of Hg.. We use a rotary vane vacuum pump from Harbor Freight.. its original purpose is to evacuate air conditioning systems so it pulls a nice hard vacuum. It takes our pump about 8 seconds to pull down a 1/2 gallon jar.

That’s it.. done. Contents should last 10 to 20 years.

Statistics: Posted by Murby — Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:04 pm


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Natural Disasters • Re: 12 hour notice sun flare. what would you do?

February 10, 2017 Murby 0

There’s a lot of bad information circling the internet about EMP’s.. most of it is wrong.

EMP’s come in three flavors.. E1, E2 and E3

The E1 pulse is produced by nuclear weapons detonated in space. The pulse is short, measured in nanoseconds, but has a theoretical peak amplitude of around 50,000 volts per meter. Due to the inverse square law of wave propagation, the further out from the center of detonation you are, the smaller the amplitude. Plugged in or not, no unprotected electronics would survive within the highest amplitude radius of the center. Electronics in trash cans would not survive either but if they were packed in multiple EMP shielding layers, they’d have a chance. In the outlying areas around 1000 miles away, electronics stored in DIY EMP cans might have a chance of surviving.. It is still unlikely that your CoreI5 processor would survive but your 1990’s cb radio probably would, a dvd burner probably would, and most other electronics capable of surviving a small over-voltage too.

Want to protect that CoreI5 processor? It should be packed in multiple layers of electromagnetic shielding.. the more layers the better.

An E2 pulse is lightening. Enough said?

An E3 pulse is what we get from a CME (Coronal Mass Ejection). A CME will induce about 1 volt per meter into any conductive surface and will last for time frames measured in minutes or hours. Electronics on the ground that are not plugged into the grid will be safe.. your car will be safe, but the grid will get energized to millions of volts as that 1 volt per meter adds up fast on powerlines that stretch long distances. The grid will be toast, and it will stay that way for up to a decade in some places. An E3 pulse will ignite fires and burn homes down because it lasts so long that its capable of heating the conductors and melting insulation. The Carrington event saw charred and burned areas around the telephone poles due to this effect. Your microwave, television, battery chargers, radio’s, even your furnace controls could also ignite and burn your home down. Fire extinguishers are key here and most folks don’t have them.

Putting your valuables in a microwave is a waste of time for either EMP pulse.

Statistics: Posted by Murby — Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:49 pm