First Aid & Medicine • Re: Anesthesia – How?

February 19, 2017 Matte 0

Starting smaller with common/minor procedures that can be done with local anesthesia makes sense, but you don’t get to choose the injury you may be presented with at the EOTW either.

Maybe I’m just in a particularly morbid mood today, but what’s the plan for dealing with an eviscerating chainsaw accident? Or a crushed pelvis and internal hemorrhaging if someone is run over by a car? No 911, no EMS, no hospitals. Conscious patient in agony, maybe only for minutes or maybe death is still hours away. Deal with it as you might for an animal? This is where I think Murby’s question has merit.

Statistics: Posted by Matte — Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:45 pm


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First Aid & Medicine • Re: Anesthesia – How?

February 19, 2017 Matte 0
Murby wrote:
This is turning out to be more complicated than I was initially giving it credit for… Lots more work to be done.

Same here. Don’t get discouraged, maybe just back up and start with something simpler. Ingrown toenails? Incision and drainage? Tooth extraction? If you put some study and resources into how to deal with those near-painlessly I’d rather have you as my TEOTWAWKI medic than any ten First Aid&compression only CPR&AED certificate holders. Maybe not at the scene of my injury auto accident or in the next cubicle if I have a heart attack or go into cardiac arrest tomorrow, but definitely at the EOTW.

Murby wrote:
You all have to admit, being able to successfully anesthetize someone in a SHFT situation could make life a lot easier and a lot less ugly when it comes to the inevitable injuries that will occur.

True, burn debridement comes to mind. Could make an inevitable death a lot easier too.

Statistics: Posted by Matte — Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:38 pm


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First Aid & Medicine • Re: Anesthesia – How?

February 18, 2017 Matte 0

I’m with you up to a point but then you lose me. The “some kind of “knock you unconscious” drug” comment suggests some more study may be beneficial if that’s the best way you can describe what the goal is.

But more than that, seems to me you’re coming at this from the wrong direction too. Why not build a list of the anesthetics that have the properties you require and that fit the constraints/limitations you’ll be working under first.

– Level of sedation required
– Route of administration limitations
– Doesn’t have respiratory / cardio depressive effects
– High margin of safety between therapeutic and lethal dosages
– Reversal agent availability

Then determine if it’s possible to manufacture those (if you must)? Think you’ll find it’s going to be a very short list, and even shorter if you remove those that are scheduled drugs.

Statistics: Posted by Matte — Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:34 am


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Economic Disasters • Re: So for investors who hold physical gold and silver, 2017

February 17, 2017 Matte 0
In the scramble for surviving resources, survivors may develop a domestic mode of production in which currency will be displaced by barter for exchanges of subsistence goods and a system of fixed allocations may be established. Currency is likely to be confined to the prestige sphere, or for obtaining particularly lumpy goods, and probably will consist of precious metals and gems.

From the article I posted a link to above. That’s the researchers conclusion based on studies of prior events, history may not repeat but it often rhymes.

A few rifle cartridges for a few eggs, some batteries for a blanket, boot repair in exchange for a few pounds of salt, that is subsistence type bartering. It will likely occur between neighbors or those in close proximity very early following a collapse. Later, once some order and security and a means for dispute arbitration exists, then in peasant marketplaces set up for trading subsistence type goods. Hand to mouth existence stuff, small quantities of silver might be useful here.

Lumpy goods/services would be things like medical services, land or homes, multiple head of cattle, getting your 1000 gallon propane or diesel tank refilled, a new tractor, or a winter’s worth of split firewood. Prestige is power within the group, clan, or community, the ability to influence people and get favorable outcomes in disputes. It might be fun to fantasize about the stupid rich people or clueless community leaders begging you to take their luxury items in exchange for a loaf of bread, but it’s not very realistic. At least some of their pre-collapse prestige will carry over initially and they’ll be trying to organize people and resources, whether you’re seen as one of the organizers or one of the organizees (is that a word?) depends on your prestige.

And there’s going to be black markets, even during the siege of Leningrad when some had resorted to cannibalism there was still food for purchase if you could afford it. If you want larger quantities of rationed or contraband items, or extra ration cards, this is probably where you’ll need to shop.

If you can afford to pay cash for expensive prestige/lumpy goods now, without using payment plans or insurance or credit, and you want to be able to continue to do so following a major societal collapse, that’s where gold is likely to be your best bet. This is how I see it paying out in a sudden societal collapse anyway, within a few weeks some structure (not necessarily good) will start to take shape out of the chaos.

Statistics: Posted by Matte — Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:10 am


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First Aid & Medicine • Re: Anesthesia – How?

February 17, 2017 Matte 0
Murby wrote:
If you needed a limb amputated or a bullet pulled, would you rather die in your sleep from an anesthetic mistake or die in agony from shock?? Not sure about everyone else but I’d choose the anesthesia.

That’s interesting, from the standpoints of say needing an emergency anesthetic for amputating a trapped limb to free a victim or for use as a euthanasia drug (whether that was the intent or not). If it was my arm that was mangled and stuck in a piece of equipment, or my leg trapped under building debris, I might agree that you anesthetize me before taking a hacksaw to my limb.

Still not understanding why you want to manufacture an anesthetic agent yourself however. You wouldn’t be able to produce an agent nearly as pure as even lab grade reagent quality in your kitchen, it’ll require time to do so that you may not have, the supplies and equipment would likely be ten times or more the cost of just purchasing it, and the purchased product will come in an appropriate container (with preservatives and stabilizers, if needed) for transport and storage already. Why make it?

Statistics: Posted by Matte — Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:09 am


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First Aid & Medicine • Re: Anesthesia – How?

February 16, 2017 Matte 0

Why make it? I don’t advise this, it’s just been an incredibly slow day at work and I’m killing time :)

Might see the “SHTF Pain Killers” thread, near the end. Then google on “open drop ether”.

See the attachment on this post for a different method.

For local anesthesia, google “lidocaine survival”.

Statistics: Posted by Matte — Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:08 pm


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Economic Disasters • Re: So for investors who hold physical gold and silver, 2017

February 16, 2017 Matte 0

Saw this referenced elsewhere, Markets, Distribution, and Exchange after Societal Cataclysm.

It’s somewhat dated but the different scenarios it presents makes sense in my unlearned opinion. If you’re in a hurry skip to chapter 7 (“The Worst Case”). But the “Resource Abundance” or “Institution Intensive” scenarios may be more likely if you live in rural/agricultural or an urban area, respectively.

Very dry reading, maybe best saved for a rainy day ( :) ) but I thought it was informative and a good starting point for a rational/responsible discussion on how barter and markets might work following a disaster. Gold isn’t always best for example, and yes you will still have to pay taxes (with something, to somebody).

Statistics: Posted by Matte — Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:03 pm


:offtopic:

General Preparedness Discussion • Re: Shall we play a game, IV?

February 15, 2017 Matte 0

You just laid out what I consider the best-case scenario for us if a prolonged SHTF event occurred. One that started in December would be much worse for the unprepared around here, but really might be the best for us. We have what we need to live semi-comfortably til spring and then some, and remoteness and unplowed roads blocking most vehicle travel will help isolate us from anyone looking to cause trouble. We’d be happy to be snowed in and just wait it out.

How do you get there? Snowmobile.
How do you get back? Same
What do you take with you? See below
What clothing/equipment do you have for the journey? We’re prepared clothing wise, suits, boots, helmets, gloves, facemasks, etc. Slung rifle. HT radio. Have a 3′ X 8′ sled we could tow for larger items if needed, ratchet straps and cordage. Each snowmobile has a small emergency kit, heavy on fire-making and first aid, but some food (candy/power/clif bars), spare AA batts, knife (small folder), and a tow rope. The snowmobiles each have factory toolkits already (and I added a few extra items), plus a spare drive belt and spare spark plugs. In suit pockets I have an area map, compass, flashlight, knife (4″ semi-serrated folder), spare batteries, and more fire-making equipment (this gear stays in my suit year round).

This scenario is an easy one for us, been doing this for decades for fun and have experience rescuing stranded people and recovering stuck/dead snowmobiles. Our safety/trip rules have changed over the years with new technology and much more reliable snowmobiles now than in decades past. Currently, if traveling with just one snowmobile we stay within VHF radio range of home (about 16 miles with our 50′ base antenna, cell service is spotty at best), if going further we take two snowmobiles in case one breaks down. Even for short rides we communicate our trip plan to those staying behind, if nobody is home to file the plan with we leave it in the note. Have two sets of cross-county skis and a pair of snowshoes but breaking trail is slow, hard work. With a snowmobile (and a half gallon of gas) I’d be there and back in about 15 minutes.

Statistics: Posted by Matte — Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:01 am


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General Preparedness Discussion • Re: Shall we play a game, IV?

February 15, 2017 Matte 0

You just laid out what I consider the best-case scenario for us if a prolonged SHTF event occurred. One that started in December would be much worse for the unprepared around here, but really might be the best for us. We have what we need to live semi-comfortably til spring and then some, and remoteness and unplowed roads blocking most vehicle travel will help isolate us from anyone looking to cause trouble. We’d be happy to be snowed in and just wait it out.

How do you get there? Snowmobile.
How do you get back? Same
What do you take with you? See below
What clothing/equipment do you have for the journey? We’re prepared clothing wise, suits, boots, helmets, gloves, facemasks, etc. Slung rifle. HT radio. Have a 3′ X 8′ sled we could tow for larger items if needed, ratchet straps and cordage. Each snowmobile has a small emergency kit, heavy on fire-making and first aid, but some food (candy/power/clif bars), spare AA batts, and a tow rope. The snowmobiles each have factory toolkits already (and I added a few extra items), plus a spare drive belt and spare spark plugs. In suit pockets I have an area map, compass, flashlight, spare batteries, and more fire-making equipment (this gear stays in my suit year round).

This scenario is an easy one for us, been doing this for decades for fun and have experience rescuing stranded people and recovering stuck/dead snowmobiles. Our safety/trip rules have changed over the years with new techology and much more reliable snowmobiles now than in decades past. Currently, if traveling with just one snowmobile we stay within VHF radio range of home (about 16 miles with our 50′ base antenna, cell service is spotty at best), if going further we take two snowmobiles in case one breaks down. Even for short rides we communicate our trip plan to those staying behind, if nobody is home to file the plan with we leave it in the note. Have two sets of cross-county skis and a pair of snowshoes but breaking trail is slow, hard work. With a snowmobile (and a half gallon of gas) I’d be there and back in about 15 minutes.

Statistics: Posted by Matte — Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:01 am


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Personal Safety and Home Security • Re: Dakota alert

February 6, 2017 Matte 0

Two battery holders like this would fit in the case: http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-0-Volt-DC-Bat … 2018937421 Just connect the black wire on one holder to the red wire on the other, then the remaining black and red from each holder to the +/- on the transmitter.

Mil spec/mil std reliability for a reasonable cost would be great. They’re 95% as is imo, but better weather proofing, a built in programmable relay, and external jacks for power and relay contacts, and being able to program your own alert message(s) maybe.

Statistics: Posted by Matte — Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:27 am


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Medical Experts • Re: SHTF Pain Killers?

February 5, 2017 Matte 0
sageprice wrote:

Pedro wyoming wrote:

Major French wrote:For emergency surgery, you could use starting fluid to put somebody order. It has ether. You could use it for things like dental extraction.

No. starting fluid is MOSTLY ether but also has light aromatic hydrocarbons (VOCs) that are very hazardous to ones health. They target the liver and central nervous system primarily but also cause other problems.
However…
It can be easily manufactured using a variety of methods. The simplest is alcohol condensation. I checked as i was writing this and there are youtube videos on this very subject. The one i watched is simple, safe and straightforward…boil ethyl alcohol and pass the vapour through a hot sulphuric acid bath and then through a reflux condenser. Google reflux condenser, vigreux (sp?) column or packed column. this is the only specialised piece of equipment that is needed. One can easily make this as well once the design is understood.

The only caveat is that ALL heat sources MUST be oil bath electrical. Any spark or flame or even electric coil glowing any shade of red will likely result in disasterous conflagration.

pW

TRY this instead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z2oE8-uthU Make your own

Or go the easy route. Assayed 99.+% pure, and much safer for storage this way too.

Statistics: Posted by Matte — Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:48 am


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Personal Safety and Home Security • Re: Dakota alert

February 5, 2017 Matte 0

Congrats, I’m a fan of them as well. You may find this article helpful: http://modernsurvivalonline.com/mat-mod … ansmitter/

Still running a couple of mine off ~12v since that article was written without any problems or failures. My oldest MAT is about 10 years old now and still works, the MURS HT I bought at the same time has been bulletproof as well even with some fairly regular abuse by kids.

I know Dakota Alert changed the recorded alert messages to a woman’s voice in recent years, if the boards in your MATs are different than the ones in the article I’d appreciate seeing a pic of them if possible. Thanks and good luck with them.

Statistics: Posted by Matte — Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:43 am