No Picture

General Homesteading Topics • Re: Type of lime for an outhouse

June 30, 2017 Gunns 0
Permafrost wrote:
I use wood ash. I have considered getting lime but the ash from my wood stove is free and needs to be dumped somewhere. It works somewhat, I guess. I still have a stalagmite/stalactite (whatever) in the outhouse come spring, but nothing works in the winter because everything is froze solid.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

I imagine everything outside stays frozen in the winter where you are at.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:46 am


No Picture

General Homesteading Topics • Re: Type of lime for an outhouse

June 30, 2017 Gunns 0
Permafrost wrote:
I use wood ash. I have considered getting lime but the ash from my wood stove is free and needs to be dumped somewhere. It works somewhat, I guess. I still have a stalagmite/stalactite (whatever) in the outhouse come spring, but nothing works in the winter because everything is froze solid.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

I imagine everything outside stays frozen in the winter where you are at.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:46 am


No Picture

A.N.T.S. • Re: Liberals Coup-De-Tat

June 30, 2017 Gunns 0
Permafrost wrote:
As much as I hare libs and would love to discount the idea all together, I do think it is a outside possibility if things get bad enough for them. Don’t get me wrong I hate them, they are trying to end my way of life because “fur is murder” and everyone should only eat imported plants instead of meat.

Two things chill my blood when I think of this.

One, there are a lot of these “people”. It is simple numbers, a group of 10 heavily armed men or women will not stand a chance against 1000 scrawny emaciated tree huggers. Granted the losses would be astronomical but in the end the numbers would overpower the heavily armed people. It would become a war of attrition, and it takes no time to become vegetarian cannon fodder but it takes months to train soldiers.

Two, there are a lot of fence sitters and they are armed. I even have to consider myself part of this group. These are the people who are actually in the middle on most issues. Most of these people could care less about gay rights or abortion or any of it, they like the status quo and do not want to rock the boat. My fear is that these people will throw their lot in with the liberals as soon as the conservatives go to far, and then it is not just the numbers but it is also armed people. For each one it will be a different trigger, a family member coming out or a rape that results in a abortion, but slowly they will align with the far left as politicians push to the right.

This gets compounded with the “moral” dilemma that will plague those who could care less but are expected to follow orders. How many people could pull the trigger on a unarmed (at least no firearms) person when they are ordered to protect some bank that foreclosed on their brother-in-laws house. This is why the occupy wall street people were allowed to go as far as they did, the people who were supposed to stop them had themselves been wronged by the institutions that needed protecting. Nobody wanted to shoot some guy throwing rocks at a bank because that bank had similarly screwed all the people that it needed to protect it. I imagine that a “new revolution” would go down the same way, and many could not stomach killing unarmed civilians. Look at the revolution in Ukraine, there may be a civil war now but at the time that power changed hands it was relatively bloodless as far as these things go.

On some level I think it might be good to have a limited confrontation, but once it starts I don’t think it will stop. If it was limited it would keep people from straying to far left or right, and the extremists on both sides would probably die. But again I don’t think it would be limited, and I’m sure there are many other angles I’m not seeing.

A very interesting thought exercise, thanks.

Have you ever served in the Military? Just asking because 1,000 tree huggers may not be able to handle 10 veterans. Even if the tree huggers have rifles and vets have hand guns. In the military we were trained in what a kill zone was. It was the immediate space in front of you going left to right and over lapping those on either side by a bit. I don’t recall the degrees. But what it does is allows each person cover an area. Pretty danged effective too.

I do agree with you that we are heading for something interesting.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:44 am


No Picture

A.N.T.S. • Re: Liberals Coup-De-Tat

June 30, 2017 Gunns 0
Permafrost wrote:
As much as I hare libs and would love to discount the idea all together, I do think it is a outside possibility if things get bad enough for them. Don’t get me wrong I hate them, they are trying to end my way of life because “fur is murder” and everyone should only eat imported plants instead of meat.

Two things chill my blood when I think of this.

One, there are a lot of these “people”. It is simple numbers, a group of 10 heavily armed men or women will not stand a chance against 1000 scrawny emaciated tree huggers. Granted the losses would be astronomical but in the end the numbers would overpower the heavily armed people. It would become a war of attrition, and it takes no time to become vegetarian cannon fodder but it takes months to train soldiers.

Two, there are a lot of fence sitters and they are armed. I even have to consider myself part of this group. These are the people who are actually in the middle on most issues. Most of these people could care less about gay rights or abortion or any of it, they like the status quo and do not want to rock the boat. My fear is that these people will throw their lot in with the liberals as soon as the conservatives go to far, and then it is not just the numbers but it is also armed people. For each one it will be a different trigger, a family member coming out or a rape that results in a abortion, but slowly they will align with the far left as politicians push to the right.

This gets compounded with the “moral” dilemma that will plague those who could care less but are expected to follow orders. How many people could pull the trigger on a unarmed (at least no firearms) person when they are ordered to protect some bank that foreclosed on their brother-in-laws house. This is why the occupy wall street people were allowed to go as far as they did, the people who were supposed to stop them had themselves been wronged by the institutions that needed protecting. Nobody wanted to shoot some guy throwing rocks at a bank because that bank had similarly screwed all the people that it needed to protect it. I imagine that a “new revolution” would go down the same way, and many could not stomach killing unarmed civilians. Look at the revolution in Ukraine, there may be a civil war now but at the time that power changed hands it was relatively bloodless as far as these things go.

On some level I think it might be good to have a limited confrontation, but once it starts I don’t think it will stop. If it was limited it would keep people from straying to far left or right, and the extremists on both sides would probably die. But again I don’t think it would be limited, and I’m sure there are many other angles I’m not seeing.

A very interesting thought exercise, thanks.

Have you ever served in the Military? Just asking because 1,000 tree huggers may not be able to handle 10 veterans. Even if the tree huggers have rifles and vets have hand guns. In the military we were trained in what a kill zone was. It was the immediate space in front of you going left to right and over lapping those on either side by a bit. I don’t recall the degrees. But what it does is allows each person cover an area. Pretty danged effective too.

I do agree with you that we are heading for something interesting.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:44 am


No Picture

A.N.T.S. • Re: Liberals Coup-De-Tat

June 29, 2017 Gunns 0

You are asking hypothetically as in fiction?

Liberals will never do a Coup. A failed one maybe. They are trying to legitimatize the current president but they are failing in that regard as well.

Liberals would never allow Russia to help or drop onto our soil. Now they might allow Muslim countries to help them.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:48 pm


No Picture

A.N.T.S. • Re: Liberals Coup-De-Tat

June 29, 2017 Gunns 0

You are asking hypothetically as in fiction?

Liberals will never do a Coup. A failed one maybe. They are trying to legitimatize the current president but they are failing in that regard as well.

Liberals would never allow Russia to help or drop onto our soil. Now they might allow Muslim countries to help them.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:48 pm


No Picture

Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 29, 2017 Gunns 0
kappydell wrote:
Looks like a way to use a surfeit of sawdust, and I don’t have that issue. Anything requiring that much amendment and tinkering is too complicated for me to depend on it. I’ll stick to dirt & compost, thank you. It never ceases to amaze me though, the new techniques someone dreams up. I always wonder how much money they make off that stuff. But then again I am a life long cynic.

No tinkering needed. Simple, safe and productive.

By the way this is NOT a new way. Its been used for over 100 years in one form or another. MGM does not discount using dirt as the medium. This methods feeds millions world wide that live in desolate places where organics are not as available. Like desert and rocky mountain areas. You should look up Dr Mittleider and the work he did for the poor.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:25 am


No Picture

Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 29, 2017 Gunns 0
kappydell wrote:
Looks like a way to use a surfeit of sawdust, and I don’t have that issue. Anything requiring that much amendment and tinkering is too complicated for me to depend on it. I’ll stick to dirt & compost, thank you. It never ceases to amaze me though, the new techniques someone dreams up. I always wonder how much money they make off that stuff. But then again I am a life long cynic.

No tinkering needed. Simple, safe and productive.

By the way this is NOT a new way. Its been used for over 100 years in one form or another. MGM does not discount using dirt as the medium. This methods feeds millions world wide that live in desolate places where organics are not as available. Like desert and rocky mountain areas. You should look up Dr Mittleider and the work he did for the poor.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:25 am


No Picture

Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 29, 2017 Gunns 0
kappydell wrote:
Looks like a way to use a surfeit of sawdust, and I don’t have that issue. Anything requiring that much amendment and tinkering is too complicated for me to depend on it. I’ll stick to dirt & compost, thank you. It never ceases to amaze me though, the new techniques someone dreams up. I always wonder how much money they make off that stuff. But then again I am a life long cynic.

No tinkering needed. Simple, safe and productive.

By the way this is NOT a new way. Its been used for over 100 years in one form or another. MGM does not discount using dirt as the medium. This methods feeds millions world wide that live in desolate places where organics are not as available. Like desert and rocky mountain areas. You should look up Dr Mittleider and the work he did for the poor.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:25 am


No Picture

Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 29, 2017 Gunns 0
kappydell wrote:
Looks like a way to use a surfeit of sawdust, and I don’t have that issue. Anything requiring that much amendment and tinkering is too complicated for me to depend on it. I’ll stick to dirt & compost, thank you. It never ceases to amaze me though, the new techniques someone dreams up. I always wonder how much money they make off that stuff. But then again I am a life long cynic.

No tinkering needed. Simple, safe and productive.

By the way this is NOT a new way. Its been used for over 100 years in one form or another. MGM does not discount using dirt as the medium. This methods feeds millions world wide that live in desolate places where organics are not as available. Like desert and rocky mountain areas. You should look up Dr Mittleider and the work he did for the poor.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:25 am


No Picture

Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 26, 2017 Gunns 0
daaswampman wrote:
I use this system in my greenhouse garden, it does work, but I feel it is too problematic and intensive for survival gardening. Deep mulch gardening is far simpler, less work, and can be used for larger scale and gorilla applications.

I would suggest finding a copy of The Ruth Stout No-Work Garden Book as a primer and then explore permaculture in general. My Armageddon Garden is now over six years old (maybe more-time flies), costs nothing to maintain and NEVER requires fertilizer or water! A good deal of up front work hauling mulch, but the rest is time and nature.

The best part is you can prepare a garden site years in advance and it just sits there unnoticed until needed. It’s how nature does it, but people still think they can improve on perfection. Swamp

I would argue in a SHTF scenario you may find yourself starving from plants diseases and insects. But thats just me. :innocent:

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:03 am


No Picture

Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 23, 2017 Gunns 0

This was written by Mark Taylor on the Mittleider Garden Plus site on facebook and I have his permission to post it.

Organic fertilizers or Chemical fertilizers
MARK TAYLOR·FRIDAY, MARCH 31, 2017

Organic fertilizers or Chemical fertilizers

The “Organic” verses “Chemical Fertilizer” thing really needs to be set straight in my opinion.

In the minds of most Gardeners, there is “Organic Gardening” and “Chemical fertilization”.

One sounds so nice and natural. The other, by just one word, sounds dangerous.

Let’s first correct the improper use of language when describing the fertilization of crops.

An “organic” garden is one that uses compost, manure, eggshells, fish emulsion and other things of this nature to fertilize the plants. To be specific, Organic is something that is, once was, or was derived from a living organism. Organism > organic, makes sense to me.

The “Chemical fertilizer” thing.

To start with, if it is not organic, it can only be one other thing….inorganic.

Inorganic is best described as something that is derived from material such as rock, air, water or a gas. To be specific, all elements found on earth are inorganic matter. Because all so- called “chemical fertilizers” are derived from rock or air they are specifically inorganic fertilizers.

So when it comes to nutrients for plants (or any living organism) it is either derived from organic or inorganic matter.

Now we are going to get serious and real concerning that “Chemical” thing.

These days, the word “chemical” is the most stigmatized word in science that I can think of. It has become synonymous with the words danger or poison. In gardening “chemical” is the ultimate dirty word.

While applying some inarguable science, we are going to find that chemicals are actually Mother Nature’s ultimate tool.

So what is a chemical? It is matter that has constant composition and characteristics. The most basic of chemicals are the elements found in the periodic table. In science they are known as chemical elements.
Bind two or more of these chemical elements together and you get chemical compounds such as nitric acid and vitamin C.

To begin this journey, let’s start out in the “Organic” garden. Dinner left overs, cow dung, fish guts, bat crap, tree leaves, egg shells. you name it.

If it is, or once was a living organism , or was excreted by an organism…. it is organic. Pile it all into a heap and begin composting. Decomposition is the word used but how many of us really know what that means? To a plant it means complete decomposition down to the molecular level or “I ain’t eating it”.

So you have your pile of compost and your out turning it one day and notice it seems to be steaming and is pretty smelly. This is what is going on in there. Countless organisms from bacteria to all types of crawling and wiggling creatures are munching away on everything, including one another or it’s neighbor’s excrement. This is is a living reaction chamber. The series of chemical reactions occurring in this pile are countless and that smelly steam is just a tiny part of it. These are just a few of the chemical compounds that cause the smell alone.

Hydrogen sulfide, Carbon oxysulfide, Carbon disulfide, Dimethyl sulfide, Dimethyl disulfide, Dimethyl trisulfide, Methanethiol, Ethanethiol Aminomethane, Dimethylamine, Trimethylamine, and Ammonia.

Talk about chemicals!

The notion that Organic gardening uses no chemicals is a complete fallacy. The process (decomposition) of breaking down just the nitrogen component from organic matter into a plant ready nutrient involves all of the following chemical compounds.

Ammonia, Hydrazine, Hydroxylamine, Nitrogen gas, Nitrous oxide, Nitric oxide, Nitrous acid, Nitrogen dioxide, and Nitric acid.

I could bore you to sleep with the thousands of chemical compounds found during the decomposition process, but imagine the ones that are associated with just the 13 essential plant nutrients found in soil.

So the organic garden is far from being “chemical free”. Along with systems like a rain forest, an organic garden is one of the most complex chemical reaction sites on earth.

For nutrition, every single living plant in this system requires that each decomposing piece of organic material be striped of chemical bonds and exist at a molecular level in water as these precise nutrients.

NO3- NH4+ HPO4-2 H2PO4- K+ Ca+2 Mg+2 SO4-2 Fe+2 Fe+3 Cu+2 Cu+ Zn+2 Mn+2 MnO4- HMoO4 MoO4-2 H3BO3 B4O7-2 Cl-

Now that so-called “chemical fertilizer” thing.

First it must be understood that these fertilizers are not made in the sense that we actually create any of the chemical elements they are comprised of.

The nitrogen component of these fertilizers is most commonly removed from our air through the Haber Bosch Process. All others are extracted from the ground. We use a series of chemical reactions that removes specific chemical elements from their origins and reorganize them into forms that are water soluble. Sound familiar?
Re-composition rather than decomposition.

To imagine that any of these very basic chemical elements or the resulting compounds are man made is pure fantasy. Every single chemical compound in these fertilizers is a naturally occurring compound that can be found almost everywhere on this planet.

In your garden, the only thing that separates these chemical compounds by any means whatsoever is from whence they were derived. From organic material or from inorganic material. The specific nutrient HPO4-2 (phosphorous) can be extracted from animal urine or rock …..take your pick.

Now, scroll back up to that list of precise nutrients for plants.

Every single one of them is inorganic matter.

This is a fact, some portion of your organic garden must be completely striped of its organic origins (through a series of naturally occurring chemical syntheses) to become an absolutely inorganic nutrient, or your garden will die.

In fact, everything in your garden was derived from inorganic material from the very beginning and everything in it will eventually return to its inorganic origins.

That “chemical fertilizer” thing and the nonsensical fear that is pushed with its use is a straight up pile of contrived BS.

Everything on this planet is a chemical element or compound thereof.

We ourselves are an assemblage of chemical compounds…..organic for the time being!

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:48 am


No Picture

Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 23, 2017 Gunns 0

This was written by Mark Taylor on the Mittleider Garden Plus site on facebook and I have his permission to post it.

Organic fertilizers or Chemical fertilizers
MARK TAYLOR·FRIDAY, MARCH 31, 2017

Organic fertilizers or Chemical fertilizers

The “Organic” verses “Chemical Fertilizer” thing really needs to be set straight in my opinion.

In the minds of most Gardeners, there is “Organic Gardening” and “Chemical fertilization”.

One sounds so nice and natural. The other, by just one word, sounds dangerous.

Let’s first correct the improper use of language when describing the fertilization of crops.

An “organic” garden is one that uses compost, manure, eggshells, fish emulsion and other things of this nature to fertilize the plants. To be specific, Organic is something that is, once was, or was derived from a living organism. Organism > organic, makes sense to me.

The “Chemical fertilizer” thing.

To start with, if it is not organic, it can only be one other thing….inorganic.

Inorganic is best described as something that is derived from material such as rock, air, water or a gas. To be specific, all elements found on earth are inorganic matter. Because all so- called “chemical fertilizers” are derived from rock or air they are specifically inorganic fertilizers.

So when it comes to nutrients for plants (or any living organism) it is either derived from organic or inorganic matter.

Now we are going to get serious and real concerning that “Chemical” thing.

These days, the word “chemical” is the most stigmatized word in science that I can think of. It has become synonymous with the words danger or poison. In gardening “chemical” is the ultimate dirty word.

While applying some inarguable science, we are going to find that chemicals are actually Mother Nature’s ultimate tool.

So what is a chemical? It is matter that has constant composition and characteristics. The most basic of chemicals are the elements found in the periodic table. In science they are known as chemical elements.
Bind two or more of these chemical elements together and you get chemical compounds such as nitric acid and vitamin C.

To begin this journey, let’s start out in the “Organic” garden. Dinner left overs, cow dung, fish guts, bat crap, tree leaves, egg shells. you name it.

If it is, or once was a living organism , or was excreted by an organism…. it is organic. Pile it all into a heap and begin composting. Decomposition is the word used but how many of us really know what that means? To a plant it means complete decomposition down to the molecular level or “I ain’t eating it”.

So you have your pile of compost and your out turning it one day and notice it seems to be steaming and is pretty smelly. This is what is going on in there. Countless organisms from bacteria to all types of crawling and wiggling creatures are munching away on everything, including one another or it’s neighbor’s excrement. This is is a living reaction chamber. The series of chemical reactions occurring in this pile are countless and that smelly steam is just a tiny part of it. These are just a few of the chemical compounds that cause the smell alone.

Hydrogen sulfide, Carbon oxysulfide, Carbon disulfide, Dimethyl sulfide, Dimethyl disulfide, Dimethyl trisulfide, Methanethiol, Ethanethiol Aminomethane, Dimethylamine, Trimethylamine, and Ammonia.

Talk about chemicals!

The notion that Organic gardening uses no chemicals is a complete fallacy. The process (decomposition) of breaking down just the nitrogen component from organic matter into a plant ready nutrient involves all of the following chemical compounds.

Ammonia, Hydrazine, Hydroxylamine, Nitrogen gas, Nitrous oxide, Nitric oxide, Nitrous acid, Nitrogen dioxide, and Nitric acid.

I could bore you to sleep with the thousands of chemical compounds found during the decomposition process, but imagine the ones that are associated with just the 13 essential plant nutrients found in soil.

So the organic garden is far from being “chemical free”. Along with systems like a rain forest, an organic garden is one of the most complex chemical reaction sites on earth.

For nutrition, every single living plant in this system requires that each decomposing piece of organic material be striped of chemical bonds and exist at a molecular level in water as these precise nutrients.

NO3- NH4+ HPO4-2 H2PO4- K+ Ca+2 Mg+2 SO4-2 Fe+2 Fe+3 Cu+2 Cu+ Zn+2 Mn+2 MnO4- HMoO4 MoO4-2 H3BO3 B4O7-2 Cl-

Now that so-called “chemical fertilizer” thing.

First it must be understood that these fertilizers are not made in the sense that we actually create any of the chemical elements they are comprised of.

The nitrogen component of these fertilizers is most commonly removed from our air through the Haber Bosch Process. All others are extracted from the ground. We use a series of chemical reactions that removes specific chemical elements from their origins and reorganize them into forms that are water soluble. Sound familiar?
Re-composition rather than decomposition.

To imagine that any of these very basic chemical elements or the resulting compounds are man made is pure fantasy. Every single chemical compound in these fertilizers is a naturally occurring compound that can be found almost everywhere on this planet.

In your garden, the only thing that separates these chemical compounds by any means whatsoever is from whence they were derived. From organic material or from inorganic material. The specific nutrient HPO4-2 (phosphorous) can be extracted from animal urine or rock …..take your pick.

Now, scroll back up to that list of precise nutrients for plants.

Every single one of them is inorganic matter.

This is a fact, some portion of your organic garden must be completely striped of its organic origins (through a series of naturally occurring chemical syntheses) to become an absolutely inorganic nutrient, or your garden will die.

In fact, everything in your garden was derived from inorganic material from the very beginning and everything in it will eventually return to its inorganic origins.

That “chemical fertilizer” thing and the nonsensical fear that is pushed with its use is a straight up pile of contrived BS.

Everything on this planet is a chemical element or compound thereof.

We ourselves are an assemblage of chemical compounds…..organic for the time being!

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:48 am


No Picture

Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 23, 2017 Gunns 0
DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE wrote:

Gunns wrote:I don’t have a big garden yet. My is all experimental. Finding what works for me. But when I make my big garden, its going to be MGM all the way.

With just to 4 by 16 foot and 1 5 by 5 foot raised bed I nearly filled my freezer already.

There we go….Thats the pics I remember seeing.

Thanks for chiming in Gunns…

So I have a few questions….

Is there a way to go auto pilot? Travel, vacation, ect….
I have been gardening in raised beds very successfully for 5+ years now…Production and plant health has been great but of course theres been some losses along the way.

I have to put in VERY little effort on a weekly basis….I run drip irrigation and I’ll go weeks without touching the garden other than to admire it and plan next stages in my head for fun….Thats HUGE to be able to do that IMO.

Did you do this huge T bar thing for the growing row trellis?

and cost….What do you at an estimate have into this setup? How much did you pay for the 10 years worth of food?

Thank you very much in advance Gunns…..Your answers will help me to determine if even learning more is worth the book purchase price for me. :thumbup:

Its been a while since I costed anything. Once I determined I liked this I bought all I needed. LDSPrepper has a lot of videos on this technique. He has lots of videos on Sq Foot and Back to Eden too. I have seen a few online track costs and so far they are doing for far less than a grocery store for sure. You can buy in bulk. I just picked up 17-17-17 50 pound bag for less than $20 (actually they were on sale so I picked up a few more) and each bag will last two seasons for me, plus I use the mix to fertilize 15 fruit trees and 36 blackberry plants. So I use it a lot. You still need all the other fixings, just like hydroponics.

I bought the books and read them more than once before trying. Than I joined Mittleider Gardening Plus site on facebook. The current books are incorrect on the calcium requirement. They state to use lime or gypsum but neither has enough water soluble calcium for the plants. Join the page and see what its like.

As far as autopilot many put timers with moisture sensors on the water systems so that helps. You do have to do weekly feeds though. But even then you can over feed before leaving, not too much mind you and then play catch up when you get back.

MGM is a poor mans hydroponics. There are a few on our facebook page that use all water soluble materials like for hydroponics and one in particular can leave for a couple weeks and the system feeds and water his plants. Too much work and expense for me.

The T frames are for stringing up Tomatoes, cucumbers, etc and having a trellis for peas and beans. Like in mine the tomato plants are getting over 6 feet high so you let down some string and let the tomato vines curve/layout to get more growing. I have determined I will take the best four and actually start to clip them to the 4 overhead wires to create a canopy this year. Just for grins.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:41 am


No Picture

Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 23, 2017 Gunns 0
DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE wrote:

Gunns wrote:I don’t have a big garden yet. My is all experimental. Finding what works for me. But when I make my big garden, its going to be MGM all the way.

With just to 4 by 16 foot and 1 5 by 5 foot raised bed I nearly filled my freezer already.

There we go….Thats the pics I remember seeing.

Thanks for chiming in Gunns…

So I have a few questions….

Is there a way to go auto pilot? Travel, vacation, ect….
I have been gardening in raised beds very successfully for 5+ years now…Production and plant health has been great but of course theres been some losses along the way.

I have to put in VERY little effort on a weekly basis….I run drip irrigation and I’ll go weeks without touching the garden other than to admire it and plan next stages in my head for fun….Thats HUGE to be able to do that IMO.

Did you do this huge T bar thing for the growing row trellis?

and cost….What do you at an estimate have into this setup? How much did you pay for the 10 years worth of food?

Thank you very much in advance Gunns…..Your answers will help me to determine if even learning more is worth the book purchase price for me. :thumbup:

Its been a while since I costed anything. Once I determined I liked this I bought all I needed. LDSPrepper has a lot of videos on this technique. He has lots of videos on Sq Foot and Back to Eden too. I have seen a few online track costs and so far they are doing for far less than a grocery store for sure. You can buy in bulk. I just picked up 17-17-17 50 pound bag for less than $20 (actually they were on sale so I picked up a few more) and each bag will last two seasons for me, plus I use the mix to fertilize 15 fruit trees and 36 blackberry plants. So I use it a lot. You still need all the other fixings, just like hydroponics.

I bought the books and read them more than once before trying. Than I joined Mittleider Gardening Plus site on facebook. The current books are incorrect on the calcium requirement. They state to use lime or gypsum but neither has enough water soluble calcium for the plants. Join the page and see what its like.

As far as autopilot many put timers with moisture sensors on the water systems so that helps. You do have to do weekly feeds though. But even then you can over feed before leaving, not too much mind you and then play catch up when you get back.

MGM is a poor mans hydroponics. There are a few on our facebook page that use all water soluble materials like for hydroponics and one in particular can leave for a couple weeks and the system feeds and water his plants. Too much work and expense for me.

The T frames are for stringing up Tomatoes, cucumbers, etc and having a trellis for peas and beans. Like in mine the tomato plants are getting over 6 feet high so you let down some string and let the tomato vines curve/layout to get more growing. I have determined I will take the best four and actually start to clip them to the 4 overhead wires to create a canopy this year. Just for grins.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:41 am


No Picture

Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 21, 2017 Gunns 0

Yep been doing it now for 2.5 years. NJMike is wrong. With a cost you can store 10 years worth of everything you need for growing food.

Plants only use 16 essential elements for growth. Organic, Sq foot gardening and the rest will always and I mean always be missing something. Organic gardening does not create all the essential elements. Organic gardening is just as expensive but I have seen organic gardeners outspend Mittleider 3 to 1.

Mittleider (MGM) essentially uses the rule of hydroponics and soil to grow in raised beds that are sterile so you don’t have any of the weeding, bugs, diseases associated with organic or sq foot gardening.

I the past several years I have tested Organic, Sq Foot, Vertical Gardening and had nothing but poor results. Some of those results of course was my inexperience. Most however were because these methods do not work well in NE Texas. Now I am sure there will be those that say I am wrong and they will have proof. But I only spend maybe 15 to 30 minutes a day gardening and they spend hour on hour on hour. In SHTF do you want to spend all day tending garden? Nice target I would think. I would rather go out at night, feed and manage the garden.

I guess it really depends on what you are comfortable with and what produces for you. When someone says MGM is not organic I ask, what does Organic mean? Organic gets all its elements from the same planet. NPK, Calcium, etc. Fertilizer we use is NOT from petroleum. Its from natural elements, the same dang thing in organic except it has no harmful microbes, fungus, molds, blights and pests.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:53 am


No Picture

Terrorism & other Man made disasters • Re: EMP-Korea Concerns & Discussions #3 (JUNE 2017)

June 20, 2017 Gunns 0
Mollypup wrote:
We’ve no idea who is funding NKs nuclear program. The country is not wealthy. It’s citizens are in really bad shape……… So, has anyone wondered & looked into who could be funding this?

NK funds its own nuclear program. There is no conspiracy here.

1. China buys all sorts of minerals from NK.
2. Overseas slave labor. NK is big time slaver of its people to other nations.
3. Weapons sales. Money from above is transferred to their weapons manufacturing which is done my slave labor. Big money in weapons sales.
4. Drugs. Huge. Biggest provider of Viagra on earth.
5. Cyber-crime. They make hundreds of millions of dollars every year.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:11 am


No Picture

Terrorism & other Man made disasters • Re: EMP-Korea Concerns & Discussions #3 (JUNE 2017)

June 20, 2017 Gunns 0
Mollypup wrote:
We’ve no idea who is funding NKs nuclear program. The country is not wealthy. It’s citizens are in really bad shape……… So, has anyone wondered & looked into who could be funding this?

NK funds its own nuclear program. There is no conspiracy here.

1. China buys all sorts of minerals from NK.
2. Overseas slave labor. NK is big time slaver of its people to other nations.
3. Weapons sales. Money from above is transferred to their weapons manufacturing which is done my slave labor. Big money in weapons sales.
4. Drugs. Huge. Biggest provider of Viagra on earth.
5. Cyber-crime. They make hundreds of millions of dollars every year.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:11 am


No Picture

A.N.T.S. • Re: Cooking in a Grid Down Event

June 20, 2017 Gunns 0

Like Reb we converted to LP. Stove vents to the attic.

Plus I have my LP BBQ and plenty of tanks. Plus I have my solar oven. Plus I have my white gas stove. Plus I have my LP camping stove. Plus I have my single burner LP stove. Plus I have my Rocket Stove.

Dang I got lots a stoves.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:04 am


No Picture

A.N.T.S. • Re: Cooking in a Grid Down Event

June 20, 2017 Gunns 0

Like Reb we converted to LP. Stove vents to the attic.

Plus I have my LP BBQ and plenty of tanks. Plus I have my solar oven. Plus I have my white gas stove. Plus I have my LP camping stove. Plus I have my single burner LP stove. Plus I have my Rocket Stove.

Dang I got lots a stoves.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:04 am


No Picture

A.N.T.S. • Re: Bacon Math

June 20, 2017 Gunns 0
handyman777 wrote:
25 pieces-fuel guy
3 pieces-returned to the three guys
2 pieces-handyman “who ripped off” the three guys and probably lost business for his boss.
Adds up to 30 pieces–sounds like the handyman should be banished (fired) or turned into dog food. Just a thought…..

Correct. Thing is the answer Cadit gave of 29 is Liberal math. The other 1 went to the people.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:01 am


No Picture

A.N.T.S. • Re: Bacon Math

June 20, 2017 Gunns 0
handyman777 wrote:
25 pieces-fuel guy
3 pieces-returned to the three guys
2 pieces-handyman “who ripped off” the three guys and probably lost business for his boss.
Adds up to 30 pieces–sounds like the handyman should be banished (fired) or turned into dog food. Just a thought…..

Correct. Thing is the answer Cadit gave of 29 is Liberal math. The other 1 went to the people.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:01 am


No Picture

General Preparedness Discussion • Re: Russia Threatens U.S. Planes after U.S. shoots down SU-2

June 20, 2017 Gunns 0

Russia doesn’t want a shooting war with the U.S. They would have to go nuclear just to come to a draw. Putin loves himself too much to go nuclear.

A conventional war wouldn’t last all that long. Russia has numbers, but most of that can not be fielded. Just because they have a couple new things and parade them around doesn’t mean they can do much with the rest.

Now a two front war would be more difficult. If China and Russia were to join together that would be tough, but if they did not go nuclear, they too would lose against America. Biggest reason is our Navy would dominate the Pacific and Indian oceans. Our Air Force and Army would take Europe and our allies would not be able to sit it out.

Nope neither wants a war. What they want is another coward in the White House.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:56 am


No Picture

General Preparedness Discussion • Re: Russia Threatens U.S. Planes after U.S. shoots down SU-2

June 20, 2017 Gunns 0

Russia doesn’t want a shooting war with the U.S. They would have to go nuclear just to come to a draw. Putin loves himself too much to go nuclear.

A conventional war wouldn’t last all that long. Russia has numbers, but most of that can not be fielded. Just because they have a couple new things and parade them around doesn’t mean they can do much with the rest.

Now a two front war would be more difficult. If China and Russia were to join together that would be tough, but if they did not go nuclear, they too would lose against America. Biggest reason is our Navy would dominate the Pacific and Indian oceans. Our Air Force and Army would take Europe and our allies would not be able to sit it out.

Nope neither wants a war. What they want is another coward in the White House.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:56 am


No Picture

General Preparedness Discussion • Re: Russia Threatens U.S. Planes after U.S. shoots down SU-2

June 19, 2017 Gunns 0

1 Just because Trump is in office I doubt many stopped prepping. Trump is trying to stop the bleeding but he doesn’t realize we are hemorrhaging.
2 So U.S. shoots down a plane. Big deal. Remember Turkey shot down a Russian plane? Bigger deal, what happened, nothing really.
3 Frog in a pan with cold water over a flame. That is America right now. WW3 started on 9/11 like NJMike said.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:57 am


No Picture

General Preparedness Discussion • Re: Russia Threatens U.S. Planes after U.S. shoots down SU-2

June 19, 2017 Gunns 0

1 Just because Trump is in office I doubt many stopped prepping. Trump is trying to stop the bleeding but he doesn’t realize we are hemorrhaging.
2 So U.S. shoots down a plane. Big deal. Remember Turkey shot down a Russian plane? Bigger deal, what happened, nothing really.
3 Frog in a pan with cold water over a flame. That is America right now. WW3 started on 9/11 like NJMike said.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:57 am


No Picture

A.N.T.S. • Re: Shooting of Republicans

June 16, 2017 Gunns 0

We should all be glad he did not practice first. Seems to me after a hundred shots or so there could have been many more that were killed. If he had practiced every day for a couple weeks it would have been a slaughter.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:32 am


No Picture

General Food Topics • Re: Canned Ham shelf life

June 14, 2017 Gunns 0

The only canned meat I have used is Tuna. I had some a couple years past the date and never noticed any difference. Actually I was eating them and did not know they expired.

Les eats 50 year old canned chicken.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl … 693520.stm

I remember something about a discovery up north of canned venison over 100 years old. It was tested and found to still be edible.

I also remember my Aunt opening jarred chicken on her farm that was over a decade old. It was great.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:55 am


No Picture

A.N.T.S. • Re: Bicycles; are they worth the Investment

June 8, 2017 Gunns 0
Cadit wrote:
That trailer isn’t much different than mine, it has regular rail sides and a liner with a cover to keep things dry. Very lite and easy to pull, I put my weights in it sometimes and pull it loaded with about 70 to 75 pounds. At first it would ware me out, but after a short time, I got use to the extra load.

The big thing is going through the woods after it has rained, Hard going here. Don’t do that much. Had ended up pushing it a couple of times. Tires like those on the beach bikes would work better, but that’s a different type of bike all together. :'(

I don’t think I would even try to go through a woods with a trailer. Most likely burn more energy then if you did several trips with the bike and back pack.

I was thinking more like bugging out early, before the people finally realize they are screwed. Or after all the violence subsides and you need to get around.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:19 pm


No Picture

A.N.T.S. • Re: Bicycles; are they worth the Investment

June 8, 2017 Gunns 0
Cadit wrote:
That trailer isn’t much different than mine, it has regular rail sides and a liner with a cover to keep things dry. Very lite and easy to pull, I put my weights in it sometimes and pull it loaded with about 70 to 75 pounds. At first it would ware me out, but after a short time, I got use to the extra load.

The big thing is going through the woods after it has rained, Hard going here. Don’t do that much. Had ended up pushing it a couple of times. Tires like those on the beach bikes would work better, but that’s a different type of bike all together. :'(

I don’t think I would even try to go through a woods with a trailer. Most likely burn more energy then if you did several trips with the bike and back pack.

I was thinking more like bugging out early, before the people finally realize they are screwed. Or after all the violence subsides and you need to get around.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:19 pm


No Picture

Wanted • Re: wanted prepper family to share ranch in colorado

June 8, 2017 Gunns 0
DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE wrote:

Gunns wrote:Nothing wrong with Pot. Only an uninformed person would turn away a medical herb that has been around humans for tens of thousands of years.

Definitely agreeing with Illini on this one…Security risk.

Crime rates have soared in CO all based around the pot industry.

I also agree with you in pot definitely has med benefits…I’ve experienced them firsthand. But I just took the CBD’s WITHOUT the THC so there was no “High”….Cleared my arthritis right up and haven’t taken ANYTHING after the first initial 3 months use for over 2 years now and haven’t had a single flare up…There is ABSOLUTELY a medical benefit. But you don’t need to get high using it.(in most cases)

In this particular case though referenced here, just living there, its like being a prepper with a sign on the highway directing all zombies to your front door for supplies in SHTF.

“Please…rob my family at gunpoint and kill us if it suits your fancy…I’m just a groundskeeper so no one will mind me when were gone.”………No thanks.

See above.

Love how some people think I wrote one thing and I actually wrote something else. That’s how fights start. Reading comprehension is important.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:24 pm


No Picture

Wanted • Re: wanted prepper family to share ranch in colorado

June 8, 2017 Gunns 0
DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE wrote:

Gunns wrote:Nothing wrong with Pot. Only an uninformed person would turn away a medical herb that has been around humans for tens of thousands of years.

Definitely agreeing with Illini on this one…Security risk.

Crime rates have soared in CO all based around the pot industry.

I also agree with you in pot definitely has med benefits…I’ve experienced them firsthand. But I just took the CBD’s WITHOUT the THC so there was no “High”….Cleared my arthritis right up and haven’t taken ANYTHING after the first initial 3 months use for over 2 years now and haven’t had a single flare up…There is ABSOLUTELY a medical benefit. But you don’t need to get high using it.(in most cases)

In this particular case though referenced here, just living there, its like being a prepper with a sign on the highway directing all zombies to your front door for supplies in SHTF.

“Please…rob my family at gunpoint and kill us if it suits your fancy…I’m just a groundskeeper so no one will mind me when were gone.”………No thanks.

See above.

Love how some people think I wrote one thing and I actually wrote something else. That’s how fights start. Reading comprehension is important.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:24 pm


No Picture

Wanted • Re: wanted prepper family to share ranch in colorado

June 8, 2017 Gunns 0
Illini Warrior wrote:

Gunns wrote:Nothing wrong with Pot. Only an uninformed person would turn away a medical herb that has been around humans for tens of thousands of years.

risk your life? …. this guy wants a 24/7/365 security guard in exchange for parking your RV …. better have more of excuse than pot for the dead brain cells …

Your putting words where I did not write them. I never said take him up on his offer. I just said nothing wrong with Pot. So no I would not take up an offer such as this.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:22 pm


No Picture

Wanted • Re: wanted prepper family to share ranch in colorado

June 8, 2017 Gunns 0
Illini Warrior wrote:

Gunns wrote:Nothing wrong with Pot. Only an uninformed person would turn away a medical herb that has been around humans for tens of thousands of years.

risk your life? …. this guy wants a 24/7/365 security guard in exchange for parking your RV …. better have more of excuse than pot for the dead brain cells …

Your putting words where I did not write them. I never said take him up on his offer. I just said nothing wrong with Pot. So no I would not take up an offer such as this.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:22 pm


No Picture

A.N.T.S. • Re: Bicycles; are they worth the Investment

June 8, 2017 Gunns 0

I have thought about this too. I was once considering a bike with an electric motor and lithium battery. Some of them recharge going down hill.

Also a trailer is a good thing.

C:\Users\matr06047\Desktop\2017-06-08 11_55_48-Amazon.com _ Allen Sports Deluxe 2-Child Steel Bicycle Trailer, Red _ Sports & O.png

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:58 am


No Picture

A.N.T.S. • Re: Bicycles; are they worth the Investment

June 8, 2017 Gunns 0

I have thought about this too. I was once considering a bike with an electric motor and lithium battery. Some of them recharge going down hill.

Also a trailer is a good thing.

C:\Users\matr06047\Desktop\2017-06-08 11_55_48-Amazon.com _ Allen Sports Deluxe 2-Child Steel Bicycle Trailer, Red _ Sports & O.png

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:58 am


No Picture

A.N.T.S. • Re: Is this the Calm Before the Storm

June 7, 2017 Gunns 0

1980 Minneapolis Mn.

A tool company wanted to modernize their factory and when they went for permits they were told in a loud voice NO. Not unless they employed some of the Welfare individuals that lived right next door. There were about 400 families living in low income housing. The company OK, what could they do.

They pretty much laid off everyone, retooled and made things pretty much automated. They still had to fill about 100 jobs so when they were done they went and had a job fair in the middle of this housing. Many showed up for interviews. Remember this is 1980 and the starting wage for a trainee was $10 an hour, full medical, full dental and profit sharing. After training the pay could have been as high as $15 for an operator and more for a supervisor.

Not a single one took the job. The city made it mandatory that a certain percentage had to be from that housing or they could not do business. Months passed and court hearings ended up removing that requirement. They even went to $20 an hour for operators and not a single person from that housing applied.

I remember this because I applied and was turned down since I was not on Welfare. I was however going to school full time. They told me to come back after they had filled some jobs from the housing complex.

Moral of the story, this has been happening for decades. Social Media has made it worse.

After the mandatory requirement was lifted they filled every job in a couple weeks. Sad part is that this was a privately owned family business and they ended up having to sell it because of all this.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:03 am


No Picture

A.N.T.S. • Re: Is this the Calm Before the Storm

June 7, 2017 Gunns 0

1980 Minneapolis Mn.

A tool company wanted to modernize their factory and when they went for permits they were told in a loud voice NO. Not unless they employed some of the Welfare individuals that lived right next door. There were about 400 families living in low income housing. The company OK, what could they do.

They pretty much laid off everyone, retooled and made things pretty much automated. They still had to fill about 100 jobs so when they were done they went and had a job fair in the middle of this housing. Many showed up for interviews. Remember this is 1980 and the starting wage for a trainee was $10 an hour, full medical, full dental and profit sharing. After training the pay could have been as high as $15 for an operator and more for a supervisor.

Not a single one took the job. The city made it mandatory that a certain percentage had to be from that housing or they could not do business. Months passed and court hearings ended up removing that requirement. They even went to $20 an hour for operators and not a single person from that housing applied.

I remember this because I applied and was turned down since I was not on Welfare. I was however going to school full time. They told me to come back after they had filled some jobs from the housing complex.

Moral of the story, this has been happening for decades. Social Media has made it worse.

After the mandatory requirement was lifted they filled every job in a couple weeks. Sad part is that this was a privately owned family business and they ended up having to sell it because of all this.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:03 am