No Picture

General Preparedness Discussion • Re: The truth about Rice and Beans

July 15, 2017 Gunns 0
IceFire wrote:

Gunns wrote:

IceFire wrote:Being in the Southwest, rice and beans are pretty much “staple” items here. Not only that, but mixing beans and rice form a complete protein. We eat them frequently. I’ve never noticed the combination to clog me up.

Well bless your heart. I was brought up meat and potatoes. Guess my insides are geared that way.

I was brought up meat and potatoes, too, Gunns. I’ve adapted since marrying someone from the Southwest, and then moving here. Your insides CAN adjust, it’s just easier on you if you ease them into it.

:thumbup:

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:10 pm


No Picture

General Preparedness Discussion • Re: The truth about Rice and Beans

July 14, 2017 Gunns 0
IceFire wrote:
Being in the Southwest, rice and beans are pretty much “staple” items here. Not only that, but mixing beans and rice form a complete protein. We eat them frequently. I’ve never noticed the combination to clog me up.

Well bless your heart. I was brought up meat and potatoes. Guess my insides are geared that way.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:51 am


No Picture

General Preparedness Discussion • Re: The truth about Rice and Beans

July 14, 2017 Gunns 0
IceFire wrote:
Being in the Southwest, rice and beans are pretty much “staple” items here. Not only that, but mixing beans and rice form a complete protein. We eat them frequently. I’ve never noticed the combination to clog me up.

Well bless your heart. I was brought up meat and potatoes. Guess my insides are geared that way.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:51 am


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General Preparedness Discussion • Re: The truth about Rice and Beans

July 12, 2017 Gunns 0
Genevieve wrote:

Gunns wrote:

Genevieve wrote:add your greens hon “roughage” makes the world go round

Agreed and I do. However, if SHTF roughage won’t last long.

why not? :?

lambs quarters, dandelion, land cress, etc will still be around and you can harvest their seeds to grow them yourself

I hope you are right. I am just thinking we may not have time to go around harvesting anything at first. You may be on a diet of what you have stored for months before wanting to venture around outside.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:52 pm


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A.N.T.S. • Re: Grooming

July 12, 2017 Gunns 0

I got plenty of razor blades, scissors for the hair. I will try to at least shave twice a week. Keeping as clean as possible is important.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:47 pm


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Terrorism & other Man made disasters • UK’s Run Hide Tell video

July 12, 2017 Gunns 0

So pretty much in the UK they say you should run away from the attackers, hide and call for help. Now granted, that is not entirely bad advice it does breed a victim hood populace and says that terror attacks are just a part of everyday life and should be expected.

I did however leave them a comment about if the victims run away from the attack, they may be running smack into a trap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_VrwYJawxc

“Whilst the chances of being involved in a terror attack remain extremely rare, holidaymakers travelling abroad this summer are being urged to watch a new video designed to help keep them safe in the event of an incident.

With millions of sun-seekers expected to jet off over the coming months, counter terrorism police – in association with the Foreign Office and ABTA The Travel Association – have launched a new four minute film outlining what to do if caught up in an attack.

There is no specific intelligence that British holidaymakers will be targeted this summer but the launch of the film and supporting information is part of a general campaign to raise awareness among the public. It highlights the steps people can take to minimise the impact of an attack – including knowing the local emergency services number.

This innovative new approach encourages everyone to be prepared should the worst happen.

The central message is Run, Hide, Tell and was first launched by UK police in December 2015 after attacks in Paris. It was recently re-issued to the public by officers during London’s Borough Market incident.”

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:52 am


No Picture

General Preparedness Discussion • Re: The truth about Rice and Beans

July 12, 2017 Gunns 0
daaswampman wrote:

Gunns wrote:Thanks for the responses. Brown rice doesn’t store long does it? I thought you could only get about 5 years of storage on it.

Apricots are a good idea. Freeze dried should store well plus the make great snacks. ( almost typed snakes)

I have read that brown rice does not store as well as white rice, but I have never had any that (went bad) or would know how to tell if it was bad! What I have noticed, is the older stuff needs to be soaked longer.

Perhaps I should try eating more white rice so I could experience that problem once? Nah I think I will just stay with soft and fluffy! Swamp

Great answer. How old is the brown rice you are eating? What kind of brown rice did you put up? I have to admit I am very ignorant when it comes to rice.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:41 am


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A.N.T.S. • Re: Nomadic People

July 12, 2017 Gunns 0

No. Abandoning your BOL and moving around makes you a bigger target. This isn’t some third world where no one has guns. Too many armed people in this country for nomadic living.

Now if a Mad Max scenario played out and most people were dead then maybe. But too few can live off the wild to make this a go. Even nomadic peoples have goats and other live stock they take with them.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:38 am


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A.N.T.S. • Re: Liberals Coup-De-Tat

June 30, 2017 Gunns 0
rickdun wrote:
Gunns, back in Vietnam, we call what you’re talking about as the “final firing line”, the last line of defense, was involved twice with it and take it from me, your pants are wet if you survive.

I bet. Only time I really sweat it was when I was in South Korea and facing me across the DMZ was a bunch of NK tanks. My zone was about 160 degrees. Was during the “Ax Murder incident”. Nothing happened of course but we were not amused.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:19 pm


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A.N.T.S. • Re: Liberals Coup-De-Tat

June 30, 2017 Gunns 0
rickdun wrote:
Gunns, back in Vietnam, we call what you’re talking about as the “final firing line”, the last line of defense, was involved twice with it and take it from me, your pants are wet if you survive.

I bet. Only time I really sweat it was when I was in South Korea and facing me across the DMZ was a bunch of NK tanks. My zone was about 160 degrees. Was during the “Ax Murder incident”. Nothing happened of course but we were not amused.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:19 pm


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General Homesteading Topics • Re: Type of lime for an outhouse

June 30, 2017 Gunns 0
Permafrost wrote:
I use wood ash. I have considered getting lime but the ash from my wood stove is free and needs to be dumped somewhere. It works somewhat, I guess. I still have a stalagmite/stalactite (whatever) in the outhouse come spring, but nothing works in the winter because everything is froze solid.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

I imagine everything outside stays frozen in the winter where you are at.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:46 am


No Picture

General Homesteading Topics • Re: Type of lime for an outhouse

June 30, 2017 Gunns 0
Permafrost wrote:
I use wood ash. I have considered getting lime but the ash from my wood stove is free and needs to be dumped somewhere. It works somewhat, I guess. I still have a stalagmite/stalactite (whatever) in the outhouse come spring, but nothing works in the winter because everything is froze solid.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

I imagine everything outside stays frozen in the winter where you are at.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:46 am


No Picture

A.N.T.S. • Re: Liberals Coup-De-Tat

June 30, 2017 Gunns 0
Permafrost wrote:
As much as I hare libs and would love to discount the idea all together, I do think it is a outside possibility if things get bad enough for them. Don’t get me wrong I hate them, they are trying to end my way of life because “fur is murder” and everyone should only eat imported plants instead of meat.

Two things chill my blood when I think of this.

One, there are a lot of these “people”. It is simple numbers, a group of 10 heavily armed men or women will not stand a chance against 1000 scrawny emaciated tree huggers. Granted the losses would be astronomical but in the end the numbers would overpower the heavily armed people. It would become a war of attrition, and it takes no time to become vegetarian cannon fodder but it takes months to train soldiers.

Two, there are a lot of fence sitters and they are armed. I even have to consider myself part of this group. These are the people who are actually in the middle on most issues. Most of these people could care less about gay rights or abortion or any of it, they like the status quo and do not want to rock the boat. My fear is that these people will throw their lot in with the liberals as soon as the conservatives go to far, and then it is not just the numbers but it is also armed people. For each one it will be a different trigger, a family member coming out or a rape that results in a abortion, but slowly they will align with the far left as politicians push to the right.

This gets compounded with the “moral” dilemma that will plague those who could care less but are expected to follow orders. How many people could pull the trigger on a unarmed (at least no firearms) person when they are ordered to protect some bank that foreclosed on their brother-in-laws house. This is why the occupy wall street people were allowed to go as far as they did, the people who were supposed to stop them had themselves been wronged by the institutions that needed protecting. Nobody wanted to shoot some guy throwing rocks at a bank because that bank had similarly screwed all the people that it needed to protect it. I imagine that a “new revolution” would go down the same way, and many could not stomach killing unarmed civilians. Look at the revolution in Ukraine, there may be a civil war now but at the time that power changed hands it was relatively bloodless as far as these things go.

On some level I think it might be good to have a limited confrontation, but once it starts I don’t think it will stop. If it was limited it would keep people from straying to far left or right, and the extremists on both sides would probably die. But again I don’t think it would be limited, and I’m sure there are many other angles I’m not seeing.

A very interesting thought exercise, thanks.

Have you ever served in the Military? Just asking because 1,000 tree huggers may not be able to handle 10 veterans. Even if the tree huggers have rifles and vets have hand guns. In the military we were trained in what a kill zone was. It was the immediate space in front of you going left to right and over lapping those on either side by a bit. I don’t recall the degrees. But what it does is allows each person cover an area. Pretty danged effective too.

I do agree with you that we are heading for something interesting.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:44 am


No Picture

A.N.T.S. • Re: Liberals Coup-De-Tat

June 30, 2017 Gunns 0
Permafrost wrote:
As much as I hare libs and would love to discount the idea all together, I do think it is a outside possibility if things get bad enough for them. Don’t get me wrong I hate them, they are trying to end my way of life because “fur is murder” and everyone should only eat imported plants instead of meat.

Two things chill my blood when I think of this.

One, there are a lot of these “people”. It is simple numbers, a group of 10 heavily armed men or women will not stand a chance against 1000 scrawny emaciated tree huggers. Granted the losses would be astronomical but in the end the numbers would overpower the heavily armed people. It would become a war of attrition, and it takes no time to become vegetarian cannon fodder but it takes months to train soldiers.

Two, there are a lot of fence sitters and they are armed. I even have to consider myself part of this group. These are the people who are actually in the middle on most issues. Most of these people could care less about gay rights or abortion or any of it, they like the status quo and do not want to rock the boat. My fear is that these people will throw their lot in with the liberals as soon as the conservatives go to far, and then it is not just the numbers but it is also armed people. For each one it will be a different trigger, a family member coming out or a rape that results in a abortion, but slowly they will align with the far left as politicians push to the right.

This gets compounded with the “moral” dilemma that will plague those who could care less but are expected to follow orders. How many people could pull the trigger on a unarmed (at least no firearms) person when they are ordered to protect some bank that foreclosed on their brother-in-laws house. This is why the occupy wall street people were allowed to go as far as they did, the people who were supposed to stop them had themselves been wronged by the institutions that needed protecting. Nobody wanted to shoot some guy throwing rocks at a bank because that bank had similarly screwed all the people that it needed to protect it. I imagine that a “new revolution” would go down the same way, and many could not stomach killing unarmed civilians. Look at the revolution in Ukraine, there may be a civil war now but at the time that power changed hands it was relatively bloodless as far as these things go.

On some level I think it might be good to have a limited confrontation, but once it starts I don’t think it will stop. If it was limited it would keep people from straying to far left or right, and the extremists on both sides would probably die. But again I don’t think it would be limited, and I’m sure there are many other angles I’m not seeing.

A very interesting thought exercise, thanks.

Have you ever served in the Military? Just asking because 1,000 tree huggers may not be able to handle 10 veterans. Even if the tree huggers have rifles and vets have hand guns. In the military we were trained in what a kill zone was. It was the immediate space in front of you going left to right and over lapping those on either side by a bit. I don’t recall the degrees. But what it does is allows each person cover an area. Pretty danged effective too.

I do agree with you that we are heading for something interesting.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:44 am


No Picture

A.N.T.S. • Re: Liberals Coup-De-Tat

June 29, 2017 Gunns 0

You are asking hypothetically as in fiction?

Liberals will never do a Coup. A failed one maybe. They are trying to legitimatize the current president but they are failing in that regard as well.

Liberals would never allow Russia to help or drop onto our soil. Now they might allow Muslim countries to help them.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:48 pm


No Picture

A.N.T.S. • Re: Liberals Coup-De-Tat

June 29, 2017 Gunns 0

You are asking hypothetically as in fiction?

Liberals will never do a Coup. A failed one maybe. They are trying to legitimatize the current president but they are failing in that regard as well.

Liberals would never allow Russia to help or drop onto our soil. Now they might allow Muslim countries to help them.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:48 pm


No Picture

Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 29, 2017 Gunns 0
kappydell wrote:
Looks like a way to use a surfeit of sawdust, and I don’t have that issue. Anything requiring that much amendment and tinkering is too complicated for me to depend on it. I’ll stick to dirt & compost, thank you. It never ceases to amaze me though, the new techniques someone dreams up. I always wonder how much money they make off that stuff. But then again I am a life long cynic.

No tinkering needed. Simple, safe and productive.

By the way this is NOT a new way. Its been used for over 100 years in one form or another. MGM does not discount using dirt as the medium. This methods feeds millions world wide that live in desolate places where organics are not as available. Like desert and rocky mountain areas. You should look up Dr Mittleider and the work he did for the poor.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:25 am


No Picture

Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 29, 2017 Gunns 0
kappydell wrote:
Looks like a way to use a surfeit of sawdust, and I don’t have that issue. Anything requiring that much amendment and tinkering is too complicated for me to depend on it. I’ll stick to dirt & compost, thank you. It never ceases to amaze me though, the new techniques someone dreams up. I always wonder how much money they make off that stuff. But then again I am a life long cynic.

No tinkering needed. Simple, safe and productive.

By the way this is NOT a new way. Its been used for over 100 years in one form or another. MGM does not discount using dirt as the medium. This methods feeds millions world wide that live in desolate places where organics are not as available. Like desert and rocky mountain areas. You should look up Dr Mittleider and the work he did for the poor.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:25 am


No Picture

Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 29, 2017 Gunns 0
kappydell wrote:
Looks like a way to use a surfeit of sawdust, and I don’t have that issue. Anything requiring that much amendment and tinkering is too complicated for me to depend on it. I’ll stick to dirt & compost, thank you. It never ceases to amaze me though, the new techniques someone dreams up. I always wonder how much money they make off that stuff. But then again I am a life long cynic.

No tinkering needed. Simple, safe and productive.

By the way this is NOT a new way. Its been used for over 100 years in one form or another. MGM does not discount using dirt as the medium. This methods feeds millions world wide that live in desolate places where organics are not as available. Like desert and rocky mountain areas. You should look up Dr Mittleider and the work he did for the poor.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:25 am


No Picture

Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 29, 2017 Gunns 0
kappydell wrote:
Looks like a way to use a surfeit of sawdust, and I don’t have that issue. Anything requiring that much amendment and tinkering is too complicated for me to depend on it. I’ll stick to dirt & compost, thank you. It never ceases to amaze me though, the new techniques someone dreams up. I always wonder how much money they make off that stuff. But then again I am a life long cynic.

No tinkering needed. Simple, safe and productive.

By the way this is NOT a new way. Its been used for over 100 years in one form or another. MGM does not discount using dirt as the medium. This methods feeds millions world wide that live in desolate places where organics are not as available. Like desert and rocky mountain areas. You should look up Dr Mittleider and the work he did for the poor.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:25 am


No Picture

Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 26, 2017 Gunns 0
daaswampman wrote:
I use this system in my greenhouse garden, it does work, but I feel it is too problematic and intensive for survival gardening. Deep mulch gardening is far simpler, less work, and can be used for larger scale and gorilla applications.

I would suggest finding a copy of The Ruth Stout No-Work Garden Book as a primer and then explore permaculture in general. My Armageddon Garden is now over six years old (maybe more-time flies), costs nothing to maintain and NEVER requires fertilizer or water! A good deal of up front work hauling mulch, but the rest is time and nature.

The best part is you can prepare a garden site years in advance and it just sits there unnoticed until needed. It’s how nature does it, but people still think they can improve on perfection. Swamp

I would argue in a SHTF scenario you may find yourself starving from plants diseases and insects. But thats just me. :innocent:

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:03 am


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Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 23, 2017 Gunns 0

This was written by Mark Taylor on the Mittleider Garden Plus site on facebook and I have his permission to post it.

Organic fertilizers or Chemical fertilizers
MARK TAYLOR·FRIDAY, MARCH 31, 2017

Organic fertilizers or Chemical fertilizers

The “Organic” verses “Chemical Fertilizer” thing really needs to be set straight in my opinion.

In the minds of most Gardeners, there is “Organic Gardening” and “Chemical fertilization”.

One sounds so nice and natural. The other, by just one word, sounds dangerous.

Let’s first correct the improper use of language when describing the fertilization of crops.

An “organic” garden is one that uses compost, manure, eggshells, fish emulsion and other things of this nature to fertilize the plants. To be specific, Organic is something that is, once was, or was derived from a living organism. Organism > organic, makes sense to me.

The “Chemical fertilizer” thing.

To start with, if it is not organic, it can only be one other thing….inorganic.

Inorganic is best described as something that is derived from material such as rock, air, water or a gas. To be specific, all elements found on earth are inorganic matter. Because all so- called “chemical fertilizers” are derived from rock or air they are specifically inorganic fertilizers.

So when it comes to nutrients for plants (or any living organism) it is either derived from organic or inorganic matter.

Now we are going to get serious and real concerning that “Chemical” thing.

These days, the word “chemical” is the most stigmatized word in science that I can think of. It has become synonymous with the words danger or poison. In gardening “chemical” is the ultimate dirty word.

While applying some inarguable science, we are going to find that chemicals are actually Mother Nature’s ultimate tool.

So what is a chemical? It is matter that has constant composition and characteristics. The most basic of chemicals are the elements found in the periodic table. In science they are known as chemical elements.
Bind two or more of these chemical elements together and you get chemical compounds such as nitric acid and vitamin C.

To begin this journey, let’s start out in the “Organic” garden. Dinner left overs, cow dung, fish guts, bat crap, tree leaves, egg shells. you name it.

If it is, or once was a living organism , or was excreted by an organism…. it is organic. Pile it all into a heap and begin composting. Decomposition is the word used but how many of us really know what that means? To a plant it means complete decomposition down to the molecular level or “I ain’t eating it”.

So you have your pile of compost and your out turning it one day and notice it seems to be steaming and is pretty smelly. This is what is going on in there. Countless organisms from bacteria to all types of crawling and wiggling creatures are munching away on everything, including one another or it’s neighbor’s excrement. This is is a living reaction chamber. The series of chemical reactions occurring in this pile are countless and that smelly steam is just a tiny part of it. These are just a few of the chemical compounds that cause the smell alone.

Hydrogen sulfide, Carbon oxysulfide, Carbon disulfide, Dimethyl sulfide, Dimethyl disulfide, Dimethyl trisulfide, Methanethiol, Ethanethiol Aminomethane, Dimethylamine, Trimethylamine, and Ammonia.

Talk about chemicals!

The notion that Organic gardening uses no chemicals is a complete fallacy. The process (decomposition) of breaking down just the nitrogen component from organic matter into a plant ready nutrient involves all of the following chemical compounds.

Ammonia, Hydrazine, Hydroxylamine, Nitrogen gas, Nitrous oxide, Nitric oxide, Nitrous acid, Nitrogen dioxide, and Nitric acid.

I could bore you to sleep with the thousands of chemical compounds found during the decomposition process, but imagine the ones that are associated with just the 13 essential plant nutrients found in soil.

So the organic garden is far from being “chemical free”. Along with systems like a rain forest, an organic garden is one of the most complex chemical reaction sites on earth.

For nutrition, every single living plant in this system requires that each decomposing piece of organic material be striped of chemical bonds and exist at a molecular level in water as these precise nutrients.

NO3- NH4+ HPO4-2 H2PO4- K+ Ca+2 Mg+2 SO4-2 Fe+2 Fe+3 Cu+2 Cu+ Zn+2 Mn+2 MnO4- HMoO4 MoO4-2 H3BO3 B4O7-2 Cl-

Now that so-called “chemical fertilizer” thing.

First it must be understood that these fertilizers are not made in the sense that we actually create any of the chemical elements they are comprised of.

The nitrogen component of these fertilizers is most commonly removed from our air through the Haber Bosch Process. All others are extracted from the ground. We use a series of chemical reactions that removes specific chemical elements from their origins and reorganize them into forms that are water soluble. Sound familiar?
Re-composition rather than decomposition.

To imagine that any of these very basic chemical elements or the resulting compounds are man made is pure fantasy. Every single chemical compound in these fertilizers is a naturally occurring compound that can be found almost everywhere on this planet.

In your garden, the only thing that separates these chemical compounds by any means whatsoever is from whence they were derived. From organic material or from inorganic material. The specific nutrient HPO4-2 (phosphorous) can be extracted from animal urine or rock …..take your pick.

Now, scroll back up to that list of precise nutrients for plants.

Every single one of them is inorganic matter.

This is a fact, some portion of your organic garden must be completely striped of its organic origins (through a series of naturally occurring chemical syntheses) to become an absolutely inorganic nutrient, or your garden will die.

In fact, everything in your garden was derived from inorganic material from the very beginning and everything in it will eventually return to its inorganic origins.

That “chemical fertilizer” thing and the nonsensical fear that is pushed with its use is a straight up pile of contrived BS.

Everything on this planet is a chemical element or compound thereof.

We ourselves are an assemblage of chemical compounds…..organic for the time being!

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:48 am


No Picture

Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 23, 2017 Gunns 0

This was written by Mark Taylor on the Mittleider Garden Plus site on facebook and I have his permission to post it.

Organic fertilizers or Chemical fertilizers
MARK TAYLOR·FRIDAY, MARCH 31, 2017

Organic fertilizers or Chemical fertilizers

The “Organic” verses “Chemical Fertilizer” thing really needs to be set straight in my opinion.

In the minds of most Gardeners, there is “Organic Gardening” and “Chemical fertilization”.

One sounds so nice and natural. The other, by just one word, sounds dangerous.

Let’s first correct the improper use of language when describing the fertilization of crops.

An “organic” garden is one that uses compost, manure, eggshells, fish emulsion and other things of this nature to fertilize the plants. To be specific, Organic is something that is, once was, or was derived from a living organism. Organism > organic, makes sense to me.

The “Chemical fertilizer” thing.

To start with, if it is not organic, it can only be one other thing….inorganic.

Inorganic is best described as something that is derived from material such as rock, air, water or a gas. To be specific, all elements found on earth are inorganic matter. Because all so- called “chemical fertilizers” are derived from rock or air they are specifically inorganic fertilizers.

So when it comes to nutrients for plants (or any living organism) it is either derived from organic or inorganic matter.

Now we are going to get serious and real concerning that “Chemical” thing.

These days, the word “chemical” is the most stigmatized word in science that I can think of. It has become synonymous with the words danger or poison. In gardening “chemical” is the ultimate dirty word.

While applying some inarguable science, we are going to find that chemicals are actually Mother Nature’s ultimate tool.

So what is a chemical? It is matter that has constant composition and characteristics. The most basic of chemicals are the elements found in the periodic table. In science they are known as chemical elements.
Bind two or more of these chemical elements together and you get chemical compounds such as nitric acid and vitamin C.

To begin this journey, let’s start out in the “Organic” garden. Dinner left overs, cow dung, fish guts, bat crap, tree leaves, egg shells. you name it.

If it is, or once was a living organism , or was excreted by an organism…. it is organic. Pile it all into a heap and begin composting. Decomposition is the word used but how many of us really know what that means? To a plant it means complete decomposition down to the molecular level or “I ain’t eating it”.

So you have your pile of compost and your out turning it one day and notice it seems to be steaming and is pretty smelly. This is what is going on in there. Countless organisms from bacteria to all types of crawling and wiggling creatures are munching away on everything, including one another or it’s neighbor’s excrement. This is is a living reaction chamber. The series of chemical reactions occurring in this pile are countless and that smelly steam is just a tiny part of it. These are just a few of the chemical compounds that cause the smell alone.

Hydrogen sulfide, Carbon oxysulfide, Carbon disulfide, Dimethyl sulfide, Dimethyl disulfide, Dimethyl trisulfide, Methanethiol, Ethanethiol Aminomethane, Dimethylamine, Trimethylamine, and Ammonia.

Talk about chemicals!

The notion that Organic gardening uses no chemicals is a complete fallacy. The process (decomposition) of breaking down just the nitrogen component from organic matter into a plant ready nutrient involves all of the following chemical compounds.

Ammonia, Hydrazine, Hydroxylamine, Nitrogen gas, Nitrous oxide, Nitric oxide, Nitrous acid, Nitrogen dioxide, and Nitric acid.

I could bore you to sleep with the thousands of chemical compounds found during the decomposition process, but imagine the ones that are associated with just the 13 essential plant nutrients found in soil.

So the organic garden is far from being “chemical free”. Along with systems like a rain forest, an organic garden is one of the most complex chemical reaction sites on earth.

For nutrition, every single living plant in this system requires that each decomposing piece of organic material be striped of chemical bonds and exist at a molecular level in water as these precise nutrients.

NO3- NH4+ HPO4-2 H2PO4- K+ Ca+2 Mg+2 SO4-2 Fe+2 Fe+3 Cu+2 Cu+ Zn+2 Mn+2 MnO4- HMoO4 MoO4-2 H3BO3 B4O7-2 Cl-

Now that so-called “chemical fertilizer” thing.

First it must be understood that these fertilizers are not made in the sense that we actually create any of the chemical elements they are comprised of.

The nitrogen component of these fertilizers is most commonly removed from our air through the Haber Bosch Process. All others are extracted from the ground. We use a series of chemical reactions that removes specific chemical elements from their origins and reorganize them into forms that are water soluble. Sound familiar?
Re-composition rather than decomposition.

To imagine that any of these very basic chemical elements or the resulting compounds are man made is pure fantasy. Every single chemical compound in these fertilizers is a naturally occurring compound that can be found almost everywhere on this planet.

In your garden, the only thing that separates these chemical compounds by any means whatsoever is from whence they were derived. From organic material or from inorganic material. The specific nutrient HPO4-2 (phosphorous) can be extracted from animal urine or rock …..take your pick.

Now, scroll back up to that list of precise nutrients for plants.

Every single one of them is inorganic matter.

This is a fact, some portion of your organic garden must be completely striped of its organic origins (through a series of naturally occurring chemical syntheses) to become an absolutely inorganic nutrient, or your garden will die.

In fact, everything in your garden was derived from inorganic material from the very beginning and everything in it will eventually return to its inorganic origins.

That “chemical fertilizer” thing and the nonsensical fear that is pushed with its use is a straight up pile of contrived BS.

Everything on this planet is a chemical element or compound thereof.

We ourselves are an assemblage of chemical compounds…..organic for the time being!

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:48 am


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Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 23, 2017 Gunns 0
DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE wrote:

Gunns wrote:I don’t have a big garden yet. My is all experimental. Finding what works for me. But when I make my big garden, its going to be MGM all the way.

With just to 4 by 16 foot and 1 5 by 5 foot raised bed I nearly filled my freezer already.

There we go….Thats the pics I remember seeing.

Thanks for chiming in Gunns…

So I have a few questions….

Is there a way to go auto pilot? Travel, vacation, ect….
I have been gardening in raised beds very successfully for 5+ years now…Production and plant health has been great but of course theres been some losses along the way.

I have to put in VERY little effort on a weekly basis….I run drip irrigation and I’ll go weeks without touching the garden other than to admire it and plan next stages in my head for fun….Thats HUGE to be able to do that IMO.

Did you do this huge T bar thing for the growing row trellis?

and cost….What do you at an estimate have into this setup? How much did you pay for the 10 years worth of food?

Thank you very much in advance Gunns…..Your answers will help me to determine if even learning more is worth the book purchase price for me. :thumbup:

Its been a while since I costed anything. Once I determined I liked this I bought all I needed. LDSPrepper has a lot of videos on this technique. He has lots of videos on Sq Foot and Back to Eden too. I have seen a few online track costs and so far they are doing for far less than a grocery store for sure. You can buy in bulk. I just picked up 17-17-17 50 pound bag for less than $20 (actually they were on sale so I picked up a few more) and each bag will last two seasons for me, plus I use the mix to fertilize 15 fruit trees and 36 blackberry plants. So I use it a lot. You still need all the other fixings, just like hydroponics.

I bought the books and read them more than once before trying. Than I joined Mittleider Gardening Plus site on facebook. The current books are incorrect on the calcium requirement. They state to use lime or gypsum but neither has enough water soluble calcium for the plants. Join the page and see what its like.

As far as autopilot many put timers with moisture sensors on the water systems so that helps. You do have to do weekly feeds though. But even then you can over feed before leaving, not too much mind you and then play catch up when you get back.

MGM is a poor mans hydroponics. There are a few on our facebook page that use all water soluble materials like for hydroponics and one in particular can leave for a couple weeks and the system feeds and water his plants. Too much work and expense for me.

The T frames are for stringing up Tomatoes, cucumbers, etc and having a trellis for peas and beans. Like in mine the tomato plants are getting over 6 feet high so you let down some string and let the tomato vines curve/layout to get more growing. I have determined I will take the best four and actually start to clip them to the 4 overhead wires to create a canopy this year. Just for grins.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:41 am


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Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 23, 2017 Gunns 0
DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE wrote:

Gunns wrote:I don’t have a big garden yet. My is all experimental. Finding what works for me. But when I make my big garden, its going to be MGM all the way.

With just to 4 by 16 foot and 1 5 by 5 foot raised bed I nearly filled my freezer already.

There we go….Thats the pics I remember seeing.

Thanks for chiming in Gunns…

So I have a few questions….

Is there a way to go auto pilot? Travel, vacation, ect….
I have been gardening in raised beds very successfully for 5+ years now…Production and plant health has been great but of course theres been some losses along the way.

I have to put in VERY little effort on a weekly basis….I run drip irrigation and I’ll go weeks without touching the garden other than to admire it and plan next stages in my head for fun….Thats HUGE to be able to do that IMO.

Did you do this huge T bar thing for the growing row trellis?

and cost….What do you at an estimate have into this setup? How much did you pay for the 10 years worth of food?

Thank you very much in advance Gunns…..Your answers will help me to determine if even learning more is worth the book purchase price for me. :thumbup:

Its been a while since I costed anything. Once I determined I liked this I bought all I needed. LDSPrepper has a lot of videos on this technique. He has lots of videos on Sq Foot and Back to Eden too. I have seen a few online track costs and so far they are doing for far less than a grocery store for sure. You can buy in bulk. I just picked up 17-17-17 50 pound bag for less than $20 (actually they were on sale so I picked up a few more) and each bag will last two seasons for me, plus I use the mix to fertilize 15 fruit trees and 36 blackberry plants. So I use it a lot. You still need all the other fixings, just like hydroponics.

I bought the books and read them more than once before trying. Than I joined Mittleider Gardening Plus site on facebook. The current books are incorrect on the calcium requirement. They state to use lime or gypsum but neither has enough water soluble calcium for the plants. Join the page and see what its like.

As far as autopilot many put timers with moisture sensors on the water systems so that helps. You do have to do weekly feeds though. But even then you can over feed before leaving, not too much mind you and then play catch up when you get back.

MGM is a poor mans hydroponics. There are a few on our facebook page that use all water soluble materials like for hydroponics and one in particular can leave for a couple weeks and the system feeds and water his plants. Too much work and expense for me.

The T frames are for stringing up Tomatoes, cucumbers, etc and having a trellis for peas and beans. Like in mine the tomato plants are getting over 6 feet high so you let down some string and let the tomato vines curve/layout to get more growing. I have determined I will take the best four and actually start to clip them to the 4 overhead wires to create a canopy this year. Just for grins.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:41 am


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Gardening • Re: “Mittleider Method” Anyone doing this?Is it really worth

June 21, 2017 Gunns 0

Yep been doing it now for 2.5 years. NJMike is wrong. With a cost you can store 10 years worth of everything you need for growing food.

Plants only use 16 essential elements for growth. Organic, Sq foot gardening and the rest will always and I mean always be missing something. Organic gardening does not create all the essential elements. Organic gardening is just as expensive but I have seen organic gardeners outspend Mittleider 3 to 1.

Mittleider (MGM) essentially uses the rule of hydroponics and soil to grow in raised beds that are sterile so you don’t have any of the weeding, bugs, diseases associated with organic or sq foot gardening.

I the past several years I have tested Organic, Sq Foot, Vertical Gardening and had nothing but poor results. Some of those results of course was my inexperience. Most however were because these methods do not work well in NE Texas. Now I am sure there will be those that say I am wrong and they will have proof. But I only spend maybe 15 to 30 minutes a day gardening and they spend hour on hour on hour. In SHTF do you want to spend all day tending garden? Nice target I would think. I would rather go out at night, feed and manage the garden.

I guess it really depends on what you are comfortable with and what produces for you. When someone says MGM is not organic I ask, what does Organic mean? Organic gets all its elements from the same planet. NPK, Calcium, etc. Fertilizer we use is NOT from petroleum. Its from natural elements, the same dang thing in organic except it has no harmful microbes, fungus, molds, blights and pests.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:53 am


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Terrorism & other Man made disasters • Re: EMP-Korea Concerns & Discussions #3 (JUNE 2017)

June 20, 2017 Gunns 0
Mollypup wrote:
We’ve no idea who is funding NKs nuclear program. The country is not wealthy. It’s citizens are in really bad shape……… So, has anyone wondered & looked into who could be funding this?

NK funds its own nuclear program. There is no conspiracy here.

1. China buys all sorts of minerals from NK.
2. Overseas slave labor. NK is big time slaver of its people to other nations.
3. Weapons sales. Money from above is transferred to their weapons manufacturing which is done my slave labor. Big money in weapons sales.
4. Drugs. Huge. Biggest provider of Viagra on earth.
5. Cyber-crime. They make hundreds of millions of dollars every year.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:11 am


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Terrorism & other Man made disasters • Re: EMP-Korea Concerns & Discussions #3 (JUNE 2017)

June 20, 2017 Gunns 0
Mollypup wrote:
We’ve no idea who is funding NKs nuclear program. The country is not wealthy. It’s citizens are in really bad shape……… So, has anyone wondered & looked into who could be funding this?

NK funds its own nuclear program. There is no conspiracy here.

1. China buys all sorts of minerals from NK.
2. Overseas slave labor. NK is big time slaver of its people to other nations.
3. Weapons sales. Money from above is transferred to their weapons manufacturing which is done my slave labor. Big money in weapons sales.
4. Drugs. Huge. Biggest provider of Viagra on earth.
5. Cyber-crime. They make hundreds of millions of dollars every year.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:11 am


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A.N.T.S. • Re: Cooking in a Grid Down Event

June 20, 2017 Gunns 0

Like Reb we converted to LP. Stove vents to the attic.

Plus I have my LP BBQ and plenty of tanks. Plus I have my solar oven. Plus I have my white gas stove. Plus I have my LP camping stove. Plus I have my single burner LP stove. Plus I have my Rocket Stove.

Dang I got lots a stoves.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:04 am


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A.N.T.S. • Re: Cooking in a Grid Down Event

June 20, 2017 Gunns 0

Like Reb we converted to LP. Stove vents to the attic.

Plus I have my LP BBQ and plenty of tanks. Plus I have my solar oven. Plus I have my white gas stove. Plus I have my LP camping stove. Plus I have my single burner LP stove. Plus I have my Rocket Stove.

Dang I got lots a stoves.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:04 am


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A.N.T.S. • Re: Bacon Math

June 20, 2017 Gunns 0
handyman777 wrote:
25 pieces-fuel guy
3 pieces-returned to the three guys
2 pieces-handyman “who ripped off” the three guys and probably lost business for his boss.
Adds up to 30 pieces–sounds like the handyman should be banished (fired) or turned into dog food. Just a thought…..

Correct. Thing is the answer Cadit gave of 29 is Liberal math. The other 1 went to the people.

Statistics: Posted by Gunns — Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:01 am